Angela Raynor still doesnt get it.

[ThisDandyWriter]

I’ve just read Angela’s Raynor’s statement about why Labour did so badly and what they need to do to change….aibu to think SHE STILL DOESNT GET IT!! Nothing mentioned about welfare, nothing mentioned about immigration-these are 2 subjects most talked about as the reasons why people didn’t vote for Labour.
she might not like it-but id they want to stay in power, they MUST tackle these subjects and not just ignore them because they dint fit her narrative.

I do like Angela Rayner but I don't think she's got the gravitas to be PM. She likes getting pissed and while so do I, I'm not sure that equips me to have detailed conversations about trade with world dignitaries and also Donald Trump.

Not sure any of the mooted Keir replacements have that gravitas actually, apart from Ed Milliband. Wes Streeting - weaselly and the association with Mandelson is damaging. Andy Burnham - think he's a bit lightweight tbh.

How is WS weaselly?

But isn’t the issue the ‘2 cultures’. Until recently that wasn’t a thing. We had one British culture regardless of race. When I was at school, even though my school had children from a variety of backgrounds, we never ever thought we were culturally different. Didn’t even occur to us. We all went to same assembly at school, we all socialised together. No one dressed differently (apart from special occasions - I remember being in awe of my friend’s Saree she wore for an event). There was no side by side living, we all were British. This side by side living has only appeared in the last 30 years.

You're saying what you perceive the majority view to be. My post referred to "plenty of people". And plenty of people where I live want to get rid of all Muslims, legally here or not, born here or not. They talk of our MP, who's a British born Muslim, refer to "his lot" and speak of having him deported. If you challenge this and point out that he was born in the city you get "if a pig is born in a stable it doesn't make it a horse".

I don't think these people are in a minority any more.

Haven't read the whole thread, but is there any view on how many people would willingly opt to leave the UK if Farage becomes the next PM? Various first or second generation friends have told me they would choose to return to their home countries if this happens.

Equally, I wouldn't want to live here under his government. I find Farage and his policies abhorrent. But my whole life is here, my children are here (one will still be at school, one at uni, one graduate) if this happens. Plus, while I have an EU passport, it's not that straightforward for my DH or kids.

I have liberal family in the US who are horrified by Trump and hate every minute of his presidency, but equally - they can't just leave.

What do we think will happen? Will a lot of us be forced into a similar position where we hate it, but just have to get on with it?

He's just so desperate to be PM, he's been scheming against Starmer and briefing the press almost since day one. That hasn't helped Starmer/Labour at all. He's someone who's far more motivated by self-interest and desire for power than actual political belief or ideology. And he lacks personal charm.

Apart from that I'm sure he's lovely!

Which has fucked the HE sector up no end. Which is why courses are being dropped , lecturer numbers decimated, less choice of modules, universities merging and a far poorer experience for all. But hey, less migration 👍🏻

They care about unskilled economic migrants abusing the asylum system

The unskilled economic migrants don't abuse the system though. They turn up, and they apply. Criteria are used to decide whether to grant asylum. They are actually following the process. If we don't like the criteria used, we should change it, but nobody is abusing the system.

This. I don’t want to be represented by her on the global stage.

This is an insane comparison.

The jews were deported from their homes to concentration camps often to be murdered for no other reason than the fact they were Jewish. This is not comparable to someone voluntarily coming to a country, looking to claim asylum and stay there and being required to fund some of their accommodation with their own assets which can include jewellery.

So you think the country has stayed exactly the same since Roman times?

There have always been other cultures existing within the UK. Also - we've colonised half the planet as a country so it's a bit rich so start moaning about other cultures existing peacefully within the UK.

And frankly, the globalisation genie ain't going back into the bottle. This was always going to happen when international travel became normalised. If you want to go back to the days of only meeting people who were born within a 20 mile radius and living only on British produced food (turnips, anyone) then we need to get rid of planes, trains and automobiles. But that part of our culture changing isn't something that people seem to want to take on board.

Not sure how he has the brass neck to comment given she was forced to resign in disgrace.

She is part of the problem and most definitely not the solution.

I am second generation and I don’t have another “home country”. This is my home country.

Yeah me too. I’m British. I am third generation. I don’t speak the language, never even been to when my grandparents were from. It simply is just a footnote in my DNA. Don’t consider that I am in any way associated with that country other than a passing thought when I look at my family tree. That country has nothing to do with me personally so the idea it is my ‘home country’ is stupid

but why does the Uk have to be the only country where this happens? I don’t see people complaining that Japan isn’t changing itself and that it isn’t diverse enough.

What a patronisingly classist response. A one that always pops up with Rayner. Just because someone doesn’t have a PPR degree from Oxbridge it doesn’t mean they don’t understand wider societal issues.

and @chocolateaddictions - apologies, 'home country' was clumsy of me. I was actually thinking of friends who were born elsewhere and moved here (so first generation) and their children (second generation). They have said they would leave if Farage gets in.

They all retain links to these different countries (even if it's not where they would consider 'home', particularly for those in the second generation) and it would be relatively easy to move there if they wanted to.

I was just curious what others who find the idea of Farage in power despicable might plan to do?

That wouldn’t be immigration then would it. It would be emigration.

Not all of us have fallen for the bullshit that it is all the fault of immigrants.

Well said

You used the term 'an illegal.' Not 'an illegal immigrant' (which they aren't, by the way) but 'an illegal.'

Can you not see how that dehumanises people? Are you surprised PPs refer to you as racist when you use language like that?

I have to agree with whoever said more or less that she’d be an embarrassment as PM on the world stage. And it’s not, repeat NOT, because she’s working class! John Major was working class, but he knew how to behave

That was me, @GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER, and you couldn't be more correct about her behaviour having nothing to do with being working class - at least not the working class as it was traditionally understood, who were often wedded to the kind of values their supposed betters would have done well to copy

Unfortunately Angela's the product of a very different demographic, and while she's used union backing to claw her way up it'll never hide the underlying beliefs and sympathies

How lovely for you that you live in diverse areas and everyone gets along really well and you love it. Perhaps consider the other people who aren't quite so lucky and live in areas with gangs on young foreign men who can barely speak English leering (and just that if they are lucky) at their pre-teen and teenage daughters going to and from school. So yes I'm anti unvetted immigration and so are a lot of people I know. It's not about pandering to the lowest common denominator it's just people who have a different view and experience to you. I don't agree with many green party policies including open borders but I don't think everyone who votes for them is wrong I just think they have a different view on what it best for the country. I'm not sure why the courtesy never extends from left wing voters to people who vote for right wing parties.
Btw, I have never voted reform and have no interest in voting for them but the standard response of they are all racists just doesn't make sense and is really simplistic and honestly quite ignorant.

Exactly. It is astounding that people don't see it. It is astounding that the so-called educated don't see it, or worse still, they see it and deliberately wish to undo the country.

That’s not the same as PPs defamatory claim though. You just undermine your objections to Reform if you make stuff up.

They would have no qualms about sinking small boats and dinghies and letting people drown and shooting migrants so it probably would act as a strong deterrant. I'm sure that there are loads of Reform voters that would sign up for doing that.