Is it ok for men to be in the ladies loos if they need to assist a disabled wife?

[someoneelsesshoes]

Not sure if I’m unreasonable to have felt a bit strange about this.

I went to the ladies toilets in a garden centre and there was a man standing by the sinks. I immediately went to walk out as I thought I’ve mistakenly gone into the men’s. He then said sorry and said he was waiting for his wife. He was next to a zimmer frame which I assume was his wife’s.

I felt really strange about this but went into the loo as usual. I understand maybe his wife really needed help to get on/off the loo so dismissed it. She was still in the stall when I left. But when I left the loo I checked the disabled and it was open and ready to use (though maybe it was occupied when she needed it and it was an emergency).

I haven’t come across this before so not sure if we make this concession for male carers. I know disabled people need to be supported and maybe he’s the only one who can help her.

She doesn’t get to make the decision that her husband comes in the women’s toilets though? That’s a red line. Men are not allowed in women’s toilets, whether some women are ok with it or not.

Maybe this is the case of wants vs needs.
You don't want him there, but she needs the assistance. You know, she is a woman as well.

Some poster quoted a law to the same meaning, sex of the service user decides, and the carer has an exception.

I'm not bending over backwards, I'm GC, I don't support fathers taking young girls into the ladies, but I understand that this lady has a need which might require this solution and I accept it.

Do you not buy period products in the supermarket, with men milling around everywhere? Hell it might even be a man on the till, handling your period products.

and I wouldn't have to if enough disabled toilets were available.

Also, washing out knickers in a communal sink is not unhygienic ffs

if you cut your finger you’d wash there

They literally are for a set of reasons, being a carer to a woman is one of them.

It’s a totally different situation to standing there urgently with blood covered jeans.

but men have their penises out in the urinals! Sorry but this is insane just because your dad didn’t do it doesn’t mean it’s wrong.

What if she gives a crap?

All the way through this thread, no-one seems to consider how she feels. How she would feel, as a disabled woman who wouldn't be able to go in and out quickly, already feeling awkward and desperate, and having to use a manky toilet in the men's, while on the other side of the door, men are standing with their willies out.

No, it's all about you able bodied, privileged people who can't cope with one man there, for a clear reason, fully clothed.

The ableism on this thread, and the total lack of empathy or respect for this one, disadvantaged woman is shameful.

Unfortunately the world doesn’t revolve around your and your needs.

I would rather deal with a dad in the ladies than have a young girl in a loo with men at the urinals. But then I have no issue with unisex loos in general

Men with their penis out at the urinals? I wouldn't be comfortable with my daughter seeing that and most men wouldn't be comfortable with a female child seeing their penis.

Source please?

I agree with this

Ridiculous

it’s not ableist not to want men in the ladies toilets

No it revolves around the law and societal norms, both of which say no men in the ladies loo.

So you'd rather let her wet herself or worse?

You think men using urinals drop their pants to their ankles? They wouldn’t be able to put them back on if that was the case.

If a dad needs to take his daughter to the loo he can tell her to close her eyes and carry her if need be. I do not want random, unidentified men in the ladies. Cleaners and security guards are at least known and identifiable if something happens, randoms are not.

is that actually visible though? I am not an expert but don’t the urinal users face the other way to a wall and it’s hard to actually see anything without literally going up and staring? Happy to be corrected if anyone knows better.

I have seen men pee by the road countless times but never actually ‘seen’ anything.

AND GIRLS SHOULDNT BE BEING TAUGHT THAT MEN CAN ENTER FEMALE ONLY SPACES FOR ANY REASON.

Their fathers are the ones thhat shpuld be teaching them that decent men have boundaries.

Fathers in womans toilets male girls unsafe.

(A carer in an emergency is different. Planning to use the womans toilets as a man is wrong)

He wasn’t in the cubicle helping her. He was standing with her zimmer frame in the communal area. Presumably she could have left the zimmer in the same spot and gone into the cubicle as she did anyway?

I agree with this. It isn't ok for fathers to take their daughters into the ladies, my DH would never have done that with our DDs. But I would understand in the case of an elderly husband caring for his disabled wife. (No it isn’t in any way ideal, but the problem is lack of disabled facilities.)

Presumably he was waiting for when she was finished and needed help coming out

Yes

I'm assuming that he had to help her transition from the zimmer to the toilet seat, and would have to take the zimmer in again to help her get up from the toilet and transfer back to it.