AIBU to feel so weary of labour voters going on

[livingonstrawbs]

I think if people in real life knew I was saying this, they would be shocked or maybe not.

Reform are not my politics but I'm honestly so fed up of labour voting friends lamenting the rise of reform and blaming it all the greens and declaring everyone voting reform to be racist, stupid, ignorant.

Reform absolutely have some racist nutters but I do not believe that councils that were labour for more than 50 years turned reform because everyone became a racist overnight or is ok about racism.

Even saying yesterday that the rise of reform was down to failure of lab/conservative to do do anything other than maintain the status quo for many working class communities, let alone others, and the media to properly question, inform and hold to account farage was met with a barrage of hostility and false accusations. one person genuinely thinks this is all down to zack polanski and that farage has been questioned as hard as he has. Really?!?!

I should say by the way that I am a person of colour, was on free school meals, ended up going to Oxbridge and doing professionally well even if it's not lucrative. that's fine - those are all my choices. I'm miles better off than many other people and I know that. But i'm still very connected to the community i grew up in and see how working class people of all races etc without the same chances are living in immense poverty and the grind that is going on for them. Meanwhile, my very affluent labour voting friends seem to repeat 'labour is the best of a bad bunch.' for who, i say?? maybe for you. but honestly, when life is continualy shit, people do vote for change and will vote for reform or greens.

i'm just sick of being patronised and told i'm stupid, ignorant etc etc.

Look I go by Nigel Farage’s voting record which are a matter of public record.
He always votes against policies that would protect women from harm, from upskirting, from harassment from having their drinks spiked.

Farage also always votes against policies that will strengthen workers rights.

i am a women who works so the above doesn’t sit well with me so I would never vote for him.

If I were Labour I would really go all out and start taxing the billionaires. Because it doesn’t seem to matter that Farage received £5 million and has only just declared it or that no one can explain how his fiancé could afford to buy the Clacton house, how his party has been linked to Russian money (for which Nathan Gill is in prison for) because the man is like Teflon nothing sticks. and the media all turn a blind eye.

Thanks for reporting. This blanket aggression has to have some consequence. Calling 8 million voters racist just won’t do anymore.

I agree to a large extent - labelling a group of people who vote a certain way doesn’t work for anyone. Of course Reform voters aren’t all racist - but the sad thing about the left now is that they are stuck in a purity spiral so anyone who doesn’t vote a particular way is ‘thick’ or ‘easily led’. It was exactly the same with Brexit - I voted to remain but hated the way Leave voters were patronised and demonised, especially after the result

Yes. it sounds unbelievabe but this is literally what one said to me yesterday!

Thanks - I am keen to de-escalate this thread, but I believe you are right, and I would speculate that a significant number of those 8 million would agree with you, too.

This is exactly what I think - things are so shit and have been for so long for so many people working, on the breadline etc and people are desperate for change from the status quo regardless of whether it will be delivered or not and to a certain extent they know what they will get from conservative/labour so they are moving to reform or green.

I am surrounded by affluent well off north london and west london labour friends who decry this move and are denouncing people leaving as being either thick or racist and saying the greens are 'opportunistic grifters' handing nigel farage a gift on a plate by further splitting the vote.

the issue is I see why they like labour for all its faults and go with the line 'best of a bad bunch.' for them it is the best of a bad bunch because theyre not really weathering the hard edge of life at the moment. for those who are, frankly well I can see why they would take a leap into the unknown for a pocketful of promises at this point. I cant sit and judge them for that.

Agree with much of this, too.

I frequently ask antagonists - why do you think voters are drawn to Reform? And, what does it say about Labour?

These questions are often either met with silence, or that Reform voters are stupid/are former Brexiteers, or prejudiced.

None of which explains Reform’s rise and popularity - permanent or temporary.

As to Reform’s ability to govern - presumably the councils will prove a litmus test.

just catching up on all the posts - and I think what I am really struggling with is although I've done pretty well on paper, I can't forget what it was like growing up. I was on free school meals etc. I have never had an issue with well off people voting labour. I do have an issue with well off people who will never have to struggle and who are actually leading extremely privileged lives, using private healthcare to jump the waiting list, family money to buy lovely homes in lovely areas, hefty pensions, inherited income streams to supplement their wealth telling everyone else to be patient with labour and not vote green or reform and then adding insult injury labelling people who do as anti semites and racists.

at this point, I feel like a hefty dose of wealth redistrubition would make things fairer and even out the load people are bearing a bit - but funnily enough, that's one thing they don't want.

The local council elections, where the council has very little or no influence on national policy. I wonder how many candidates have broadly canvassed on national issues, such as immigration ?

When people talk about 'change', what are the changes that local councils can make, that will facilitate this 'change' ?

People saying they want Starmer out, which is fair enough, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but how will that effect what happens at your local council level ?

Most of the Sheffield Labour MP's have spoken out against Keir Starmer telling him it's time to go.

Letter to Starmer in full:
Dear Keir,
It is with sadness and deep regret that we, the undersigned former and present Labour councillors, Members of the Senedd, Members of the Scottish Parliament and 7th May candidates from across the UK, write to encourage you to take full responsibility for our party's electoral defeats this week, announce a timetable for your departure, and allow an orderly transition to new leadership for the country.
This week, our party suffered multiple historic defeats: in Wales, Scotland, and all across England.
Your government has delivered transformative things for the country, things we are all proud of: the Employment Rights Act; the Renters Rights Act; investment in public services; dignity and direction on the world stage at a time of tension and instability.
But this week, the public voted with their feet and it is now clear that we will need new leadership to take us into the next election.
We fear that inaction serves only Reform UK and risks handing the keys to Number 10 to Nigel Farage. The British public would not forgive us for this.
For the sake of the communities that our party was founded to represent, we urge you to announce a date for your departure and to guarantee an orderly process to elect your successor.

These questions are often either met with silence, or that Reform voters are stupid/are former Brexiteers, or prejudiced.
None of which explains Reform’s rise and popularity - permanent or temporary.

I am not saying I agree or know the answers. But why can’t any of those reasons be potentially true and explain the increase in Reform’a popularity? They could be potential reasons, why not? People do exist who are stupid or prejudiced or voted for Brexit or all three. And other combinations of course.

That’s true, and is applicable to all political parties.

Louise Haigh, the convicted insurance fraudster.

The bar for labour leadership is high as always, I see.

I am sorry you're being called a racist on this thread. I would never vote for reform - I've seen too much of nigel farage and don't trust him at all and the lies he's peddled and I genuinely think for working people, their rights will be massively eroded and so much worse if he gets in.

but i completely understand why at this point people have voted for him if they believe he will deliver for them.

for the sake of transparency, I voted green yesterday. I cannot bring myself to vote for labour. I don't want more of the same that keeps a status quo. i want people to genuinely see a future for themselves and want higher taxes for corporations and billionaires that don't pay their fair share and more accesible housing. I'm not an anti semite either which is the other slur labelled by labour friends. the truth is i've always been a labour voter but ive just realised the party represents my labour friends with far different life experiences and futures ahead of them than me - so it makes sense that I would no longer align with this party.

If Reform gets in, Starmer and Co are to blame for letting down those who voted for and put their trust in them.

If people have capacity, then they have the capacity to make, what some night think of as, unwise decisions ? Or is one political party now responsible for everyone's decisions, simply because you don't agree with those decisions ?

Indeed.

Plenty of conservative voters describe Green supporters as antisemitic too. Simplistic name-calling is endemic.

Keir has bought back Gordon 'bigot' Brown to make sure we all get told.

What do you think about Green policies on open borders, abolishing prisons, legalising class A drugs, legalising prostitution, Gender self ID, giving away more taxpayer money than defence budget to other countries for climate reparations, leaving NATO, getting rid of Trident?

Thank you.

Full disclosure - my OH is non-white, although I suppose I could still be a racist (I am not). Again, full disclosure - I am Conservative by default, but see Reform as the best vehicle to remove Labour, and I do not believe that the Tories are ready to govern yet.

Also, I do not lecture others on how to vote - I reserve my ire for the politicians.

Peace & love

I voted for the party that I think will best help the people who need it and on the issues I feel most strongly about. No one party is going to tick every single box. It's also what I believe motivated so many of the votes for Reform and Green yesterday. People want a better lives and future for themselves. Asking them to stick to voting for labour/conservative and labelling them wholesale as racist and/or anti semits isn't just wrong but also incredibly short sighted.

I hope that answers your question.

It doesn’t. But thanks for engaging.

I am curious about how you feel about the things I mentioned. Are you ok with those? Would you be happy to live in country where those policies were implemented. Is it a price worth paying in your mind?

I am genuinely curious. Not trying to criticize your choice.

I would like to share an excellent (I think) readers comment from the FT.

My own view, as a former Labour supporter and resident in a constituency which should be a slam-dunk Labour stronghold is that the party have lost their way and fragmented which all political parties seem to do. Like it or not, insult it or not, but this country is rejecting immigration. That is a fact. They are rejecting it and that rejection is also coming from previous tranches of immigrants who have settled in the UK.

There is a widespread belief that this period of migration (2000-2026) is unprecedented and different. Over the last 25 years we have shifted the Overton Window so much that numbers like 150,000 or 200,000 in regards to annual immigration now seem tame and manageable and they are far from it.

Any other political debate is moot when the spectre of immigration looms on the political battlefield because working class and middle and upper class will absolutely unite on that one issue - the UK is rejecting mass migration and no insults will stop it.

More liberal and, dare I say it, younger voices can accuse people of racism as much as they want and froth online but at present Our social infrastructure is collapsing (housing, medical services, dentistry, schooling)

We cannot build a surplus while paying billions in subsidies, temporary housing and other administrative functions
Social unrest is growing
Migrant labour is suppressing wages - especially in the medical services; it is not that our NHS runs on migrants; it is that our NHS runs on low paid workers and migrants will accept those positions

You don't need to vote reform or even be right wing to understand these things; I cannot stand the Reform party but I can absolutely predict their path to power and why the British populace will vote them in.

Until the UK political establishment is willing to enact the will of the majority, protest votes will continue to undermine the nation with terrible outcomes. The model for limiting migration exists legally - it is the same as Japan, South Korea, Australia, Singapore and other nations.

The answer is simply no.

The Labour response seems to be raising taxes rather than reducing the level of benefits to be paid. That alone is a disqualifier for me but, even worse in the eyes of the layman, Labour are perceived to be raising taxes to hand to immigrants rather than citizens. That will not be forgiven but a voting populace. They would rather the status quo burn.

In Arbroath the council declared to it's constituents who enquired that a portion of their new build houses were reserved for migrant families. That is insanity. The same issue in other councils.

I completely agree, and I'm not even particularly anti Labour. It's just the complete inability to realise how to convert people to their way of thinking. Clue: continually labelling people as 'racist' or 'thick' doesn't work anymore, if it ever did.