AIBU to feel so weary of labour voters going on

[livingonstrawbs]

I think if people in real life knew I was saying this, they would be shocked or maybe not.

Reform are not my politics but I'm honestly so fed up of labour voting friends lamenting the rise of reform and blaming it all the greens and declaring everyone voting reform to be racist, stupid, ignorant.

Reform absolutely have some racist nutters but I do not believe that councils that were labour for more than 50 years turned reform because everyone became a racist overnight or is ok about racism.

Even saying yesterday that the rise of reform was down to failure of lab/conservative to do do anything other than maintain the status quo for many working class communities, let alone others, and the media to properly question, inform and hold to account farage was met with a barrage of hostility and false accusations. one person genuinely thinks this is all down to zack polanski and that farage has been questioned as hard as he has. Really?!?!

I should say by the way that I am a person of colour, was on free school meals, ended up going to Oxbridge and doing professionally well even if it's not lucrative. that's fine - those are all my choices. I'm miles better off than many other people and I know that. But i'm still very connected to the community i grew up in and see how working class people of all races etc without the same chances are living in immense poverty and the grind that is going on for them. Meanwhile, my very affluent labour voting friends seem to repeat 'labour is the best of a bad bunch.' for who, i say?? maybe for you. but honestly, when life is continualy shit, people do vote for change and will vote for reform or greens.

i'm just sick of being patronised and told i'm stupid, ignorant etc etc.

I'm tired of people that support all parties going on and on about the supporters of other parties, it's everybody, not just Labour supporters.

I'm fed up the relentless Facebook comments with ad hominem attacks and clown emojis or claims that supporters of X party are brainless or unwashed or racist or anti-semites.

We should all be ashamed ourselves and lift the quality of the debate or let people support who they want without attacking them!

Totally agree OP.

But the consensus from the people who post on Mumsnet seems to be: You are stupid and racist if you vote Reform. And any thread that says otherwise will be deleted.

Today online has felt very similar to the days after the Brexit vote.

I had some quite privileged friends on Facebook who were so outraged that people voted differently to themselves that they called everyone stupid and racist, and made no attempt to find out why people might have different priorities in their lives to them.

I admit that I worry about Reform’s lack of experience (I have the same fears about PC and Greens), but I also accept a mandate - Labour fucked it up so badly that they lost theirs and of course when people are suffering, politics doesn’t occur in a vacuum. I’m not going to judge or blame anyone who voted for them. I just think they’ll make a hash of the areas where they’re in control, but hey, Labour have made an absolute fucking hash of Westminster, so who knows? I’m hoping a coalition in Holyrood will lead to Scotland not being a complete shitshow in any one direction. I don’t have enough knowledge of the Senedd to share an opinion on it.

But no, there is only one person to blame for the electoral success of Reform and it’s not any one voter and it’s not even Nigel Farage - it’s Keir Starmer, for not realizing that when he couldn’t control his own party and stop political infighting, he should have gotten the fuck out of the way for someone who could. Doesn’t matter now, because it’ll be like the Lib Dems post university fees - no one will trust Labour for another 10+ years. They had their chance and either accomplished nothing OR failed so badly at communicating their accomplishments to the electorate vs. narratives about their political squabbles.

No one should tell you that you’re an idiot for your political beliefs. There’s no bloody universal truth inherent to one political party - it’s all 100% subjective! So what they’re really saying is: my opinion is better than yours. Stand behind whatever you believe; no one has the right to persuade you with such condescending horseshit. They need a more persuasive argument and it’s not your fault (or mine, or anyone else’s) that they don’t have one and feel threatened.

Sounds like Louise Haigh is also preparing a leadership challenge for next week

https://x.com/i/status/2053148171832901739

Yes it’s all very low brow and immature nowadays. Dumbing down has been fast and seems relentless, and zero benefit from it. It’s a toxic zeitgeist.

I’d Absolutely love to think it could change, but it just seems to worsen and worsen.

It’s mainly because of pensioners but what are you going to let them do? Starve?

@dizzydizzydizzy It’s all very well wanting expensive government investment (Keynes Economics) but that’s best done when the economy is bouyant and growing. Thats plainly not the case and hasn’t been for many years. Labour has actually recognised that but slid out of making cuts to our huge welfare budget and taxed work! Increased benefits might “help” a few temporarily big it’s not a long term strategy to make anyone better off overall and certainly won’t increase the tax take. Our borrowing is sky high because of this and most people know this has curtailed all the spending you want. Do you want our DC to be saddled with endless debt during their lives? It’s already £112 bn per annum. (OBR)

Reform and the Greens are befitting from protest votes. Plus the short termism and short fuse of voters resulting in anger. Anyone who thinks Farage can be trusted about anything is utterly naive. He’s brought us nothing but trouble so far and is the great disruptor. Immigration concern is often cited by Reform supporters and many other areas of discontent. We do of course need immigration. What is utterly stupid @livingonstrawbs is thinking Farage and co have the answers. None of them do and the Greens are student politics with no costed policies. I utterly despair!

I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but there do seem to be far more people complaining about the negative characterisation of Reform voters than people characterising them that way! If I was Reform HQ I’d be quietly pleased about that…..

Mn has it on most threads. Not sure how people miss it.

Getting up to date - what do you make of the unfolding Labour leadership challenge?

There’s a lot more cries of ‘ racism! ‘ than actual racism, as well. Anyone’d think internet chat was a tad histrionic sometimes….

I don't think all Reform voters are stupid, or racist. To write them off like this is very dangerous as it doesn't address the root issues.

I think many of them are desperate - for change, for hope, for more money in their pocket after working hard, for a better education for their children, better healthcare etc

Of course, Reform aren't going to deliver any of the above, but I don't blame people for feeling frustrated and disillusioned and trying to find another option.

It makes me think of Hitler Germany. The people who voted him in democratically were struggling and he promised them food and houses and tvs and cars. They were not all stupid, or mean, they were struggling to feed their children and were desperate, and later scared. Fear and hope are the 2 most powerful drivers in making choices - most major decisions are led by one or both of these.

If Reform gets in, Starmer and Co are to blame for letting down those who voted for and put their trust in them.

Do you mean the suspiciously high number of posts like this? I’m not a conspiracy theorist either, but yes, a political party would be stupid not to utilize MN for media framing. The opinions I share are the same, regardless of whether the OP is genuine, but the very act of engagement may be encouraging it, and that does worry me a little bit.

Any time “hidden” (not publicly admitted) persuasive techniques are being used, it indicates something societally is becoming quite fucked up. The going rate used to be £50 plus if you wanted a front page thread - now it’s either £20 or just use enough VPNs to DIY. It’s my opinion that Meta properties are even worse for allowing this at an alarming rate, but that’s also just my totally subjective opinion as a former “professional” in propaganda and negatively-persuasive techniques.

This cannot be serious.

She was the one who got fired and prosecuted for stealing phones from her employer before becoming an MP. The standard of MPs is in the gutter. And these clowns think they are good enough to run the country. No wonder this country is cooked.

Speaking of the leadership challenge - a Labour MP has said they are confident West would get the 80 votes needed to trigger a leadership contest.

In fact it sounds like only the cabinet don't want Starmer gone.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1428pev1n0t

To be fair I was thinking of "real life" conversations rather than online engagement.

If their darling Labour Party were doing what they promised and were doing well, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. That whole Epstein / Mandelson cover up was beyond despicable. No doubt that was the Tories fault too.

it feels like the politics of 1930s Germany. Find someone, anyone, to blame. I’m ashamed of this country and our lurch to the racist, xenophobic, jingoistic right.

Continually trying to play the ‘R’ care inappropriately is just one of the reasons you had yesterday’s results. It’s cheap and has lost its power.

People have had enough of being accused of racism.

YABU. People are weary because the same bunch of see you next Tuesdays that are responsible for Brexit is being voted for. I mean, Brexit ffs, a shower of unending shit that has made us all measurably poorer. If people are voting for that, yes, I’m weary. There’s no conversation to be had.

I don’t know yet! I’ll let you know…

That’s no longer true though is it? I know Reform voters who are far from racist. They are accused of it though by people like you. 🤷‍♀️

I’m pretty sure that Marine Le Pen blame’s immigration for the majority of France’s problems. Although I’m not sure why this is relevant here.