So what can in practical terms fully halt illegal immigration?

[Wellwhatnowbellaboo]

Reform has won by a landslide .... immigration is probably by the look of it the biggest issue. What can realistically without breaking laws be done to really halt this with a big impact ? What would Farage actually do ? Would and should we as a country break some laws to get this done and speak to what people really feel is an issue ? (Many countries do). This is not in labour's dna so I doubt anything will come if it now ... but if you've thought about it or you have solutions what are they ?
And if you are opposed- why and what's the answer ?

Reform. Do we really believe and trust Reform and their leader? The same leader that said vote for Brexit and see millions new funding go into the NHS. The reason everyone (or most) are having such a hard time, is the fact we are in an economic depression. The average house price (London) has risen by 400% -500% in past 30 years vs average wage rise of 150% in same timeframe. Wages are not keeping up with the cost of land/ housing. Throughout the centuries people from other nationalities have always been made a scapegoat of in times of financial crisis. I’m Irish - happened to my folks. Immigration is NOT the driving factor of poverty, lack of affordable homes, high streets closing up, anti social behaviour and crime. Over past 16 years councils who receive funds from central government (and council tax/ % of biz rates) to do the work they are legally responsible for - their budgets have been cut and cut. Most councils spend 80% of their budget on adult social care (looking after the elderly), and temporary housing. The driving cause of the hardships we face can be illustrated by water companies. We sold off water companies and privatised them. We have to pay for water here (in Ireland we don’t). Water costs are extortionate. Water companies get funding from the government to run. Water companies have shareholders who have seen rise in profits all the while our bills increase, government has to fund them whilst our seas and rivers are literally full of crap. Our taxes our paying for broken services that are somehow making a profit - and going into hands of shareholders. Look around and that is what the issue is - money is taken from us and going into hands of a tiny % of people whose wealth is growing at an extraordinary rate. Sure, blame people coming over here from USA, Germany, Oz, India or whatever. That isn’t the problem. Reform are not the answer. They just have the most amount of cash to run 24/7 campaigns that get their message across effectively.

@Vivienne1000 I think the difference is less black and white. It’s not illegal to claim asylum, and there is no way to claim asylum other than arriving in the UK. Small boat arrivals are irregular, not illegal. Educate yourself, maybe?

About 6500 Iranian girls and women have arrived on small boats since 2018. Would you send them all back because they’re ‘illegal’?

Good for you. You fulfil a vital role and I can’t imagine it’s easy. But that doesn’t change the fact that you don’t see the dates that undocumented applicants make their claims and the dates those claims are decided, when compared to documented applicants. You have some anecdotal experience with a limited number of applicants which you’re using to support your claim. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s an incorrect assumption on your part.

Shall we agree to differ? You maintain your position and I’ll maintain mine? Neither of us are going to change the other’s mind and I just can’t be bothered to argue about it anymore.

But that isn’t what the stats say at all. The numbers went up, but not from the time of the vote. As you quite correctly say, the vote was in 2016. The numbers of small boats didn’t start increasing until 2018, it was barely registering before that. Coupled with the fact that security checks in France had increased around the same time, and traffickers evolving their methods into less risky (for them) and more lucrative methods, that was the cause of the increased numbers.

What was it about Brexit that you think caused an increase in numbers? Dublin? Have a look at those stats, which will show you exactly how many people we returned to the EU prior to leaving, compared to how many people we accepted. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/what-is-the-dublin-iii-regulation-will-it-be-affected-by-brexit/

Yes but you’ve got it wrong. The pp has shown why.

We’ll get there, one poster at a time!

😀 mind you if some politicians and BBC pump out similar it’s a toughie

After Brexit, the U.K. could no longer return immigrants back to France , so it makes sense that numbers would increase

How many people do you think we returned back to France before Brexit? Are you under the impression that we’d just say ‘no thank you’ and be able to put them back on a ferry? We couldn’t just send them back to France at any point, either before, during or after Brexit. Please look at the stats in my post of 20:33 if you don’t believe me.

Could you read the previous posts on numbers around this. They were really low. And we took more than we returned.

Can you also think through what it means for other EU countries, and whether everyone returns people to Italy, Spain and Greece in high numbers, they don’t people the criteria is very restrictive and those countries have to say yes.

I live in Leicester and has Asians living there since the late 1940s. During the time Brexit vote, the people who were living during the 1940s said they are voting Brexit due to the Indians. How bloody stupid and thick are these people?

They came to the UK 10-25 years before we became a member of the EU - in 1973, EU was known as the EEC.

There are some Asian families that had 4 generations born in the UK.

Many people vote without thinking what the parties are pledging.

It was pretty clear directly after the vote that the government was going for a hard Brexit, which would mean withdrawal from the Dublin Agreement.

In addition the news was full of unbridled optimism of Great Britain forging its way to the bright uplands of prosperity unshackled from the tyranny of Brussels. It was a magnet felt around the world for the dispossessed seeking refuge and the criminal sensing opportunity.

before 2016- ‘handfuls’ arrived by boat per BBC
Jun 2016- Brexit vote
2016- 100 (estimate BBC reports)
2017- 300 (estimate BBC reports)
2018- 539 (official home office records began)
2019-1,843
2020- 8,466
Brexit agreement has UK withdrawing from, Dublin III Agreement a/o 20 Dec 2020. Which meant asylum seekers can no longer be deported to the 1st EU country they entered.
2021-28,526
2022-45,774
2023-29,437
2024-36,816
2025-41,472

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/channel-priti-patel-rishi-sunak-boris-johnson-suella-braverman-b1202004.html

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/channel-crossings-tracker/

Brexit= weaker ability to deport asylum seekers or foreign criminals because we’d given the EU the two finger salute. Dublin and our EU membership was a deterrent, that deterrent disappeared. 💨

That’s because in 2013, the EU set up a migration coordination agency where the EU nations jointly process asylum applications and agree on quotas.
https://www.coe.int/en/web/migration-and-refugees

The UK refused to be a part of it from the start.

We could, we just didn’t bother because it was only handfuls.
The fact we could was a powerful deterrent.

Even during the Syrian migration crisis of 2014 and 2015, we were left mostly untouched unlike Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Lebanon, Greece, Romania, Malta and Italy.

Or anywhere in the EU.

The boats crisis is a direct consequence of Brexit.

The latest poster clarifies it.

In fact the dip in numbers in these years coincided with the we will deport anyone arriving after April 2022, almost immediately delayed to June 2022 to Rwanda announcement & scheme:
2022-45,774
2023-29,437 (the year it was battled through the High Court)
2024-36,816 (found legal & then cancelled when Labour won the GE)
2025-41,472

The perceived and actual ability to deport asylum seekers is a deterrent, even if it doesn’t actually get used..,

It really wasn’t a powerful deterrent at all. That is just not correct.

I have worked in immigration for over 30 years. Brexit is nothing to do with the boats. The Dublin agreement was never a deterrent. Small boats are just an MO that was proven in a couple of years then adopted quickly by the traffickers due to measures taken to strengthen the border elsewhere.
The boats would also be much more dangerous if BF and RNLI hadn’t adapted to being prepared to intercept at the halfway point. Neither of those parties had a choice if they wanted to avoid mass drownings. Now it’s a standard daily routine to pick up hundreds a day but this wasn’t something traffickers could be confident about until it was well tested.

Yes exactly this.

@LoremIpsumCiciin 2002 pre Brexit near highest-ever annual number of asylum applications, with approximately 84,100 to 103,081 applications made. There was no deterrent.

It doesn’t work as a deterrent anywhere else now.

We could, we just didn’t bother because it was only handfuls 😂 What?! You think we just didn’t make the relevant requests because we couldn’t be bothered? 😂 Where have you got that daft idea from? If a request to return someone under the Dublin Agreement wasn’t made, it was because they didn’t meet the very strict criteria. Or a request was made and it was refused.

Taken from the link I posted above, According to Home Office figures, between 2015 and 2018, 7,365 incoming requests were made to transfer people into the UK under the Dublin regulation, from which 2,365 people were transferred to the UK (some requests may still be pending)

This means that the UK accepted around 33% of requests. During the same period, the UK made 18,953 outgoing requests to transfer people to other Member States, from which 1,395 people were transferred abroad. This amounts to around 7% of outgoing requests by the UK resulting in a transfer.

In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018

And may I just point out that, pre Brexit, the vast majority of illegal and irregular entrants to the UK were arriving by lorry. Funnily enough, Dublin wasn’t acting as much of a deterrent there either, even before the first rumblings of the referendum. And yes, numbers are increasing year on year. Because the UK has pull factors that don’t exist in the EU and because the situation in the countries these people are coming from is pretty awful. Migrant movement numbers are increasing throughout the world. As you’ll be aware, we take far less than some other EU countries, and as others have pointed out, Dublin has done sod all to deter those applicants, has it?

And we don’t deport them. We administratively remove them. Deportation is something completely different.

You have a typo, your Home Office figures link is not from 2015-2018 but from 2017-2020. Post Brexit vote.

(They are still coming by lorry, the Chunnel, I am pleased to inform you, has been operational the entire time.)

In addition, once we had the Brexit vote (2016), it was clear we would be leaving the Dublin III agreement so the rest of the EU now had an excuse to reject applications knowing we wouldn’t have time to appeal before the transition period ended in 2020.

That imho accounts for the dismal success rate post 2016.

Oh, so we ask them nicely to leave with a removal order and they just go? Pull the other one mate. The people we are talking about are forcibly removed which is deportation.

Those posts are clear, I’m not sure why it’s hard to say ok it makes senses