... not to understand the loathing of Keir Starmer?

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

So many people who haven't voted Labour, whether they used to or not, say they haven't voted Labour in yesterday's elections because of Keir Starmer. Is that shorthand for 'the current state of the Labour Party' or is it genuinely a real dislike of the man himself? He seems very bland and inoffensive to me, and in some ways is doing an OK job - e.g. in keeping us out of Trump's war without rupturing relations with the US. Maybe his blandness is the problem. Can anyone explain why people have this reaction to Starmer?

My thoughts as well
KS just goes along with what he thinks is popular and when he realised it not he just goes back on it

he’s not a man of his convictions
he just said a lot of bullshit and popular stuff in order to get elected

and he always looks likes he is constipated
probably is with a the bullshit he comes out with

@MeetMeOnTheCorner I agree May cared about the country. Not so sure about Sunak, I think he was more self-serving. Both the public and their party's infighting meant neither lasted long and neither were able to do anything substantial which takes years of building policy change. If you've got someone reasonable, let them get on with it. The very act of changing PM so often is destabilising and likely to drag the country down.

The country has spoken. Bye bye Labour and this absolute shambles. Hopefully we don't have to wait 3 more years.

well who are you blaming for the banks going bust?

I think you need to Google things like "sub-prime mortgages" and "Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac" etc.

Brown didn't cause the banking crisis. But he did save the banks in the UK.

I have better financial qualifications than Reeves as I'm a qualified accountant. Sumak has worked in senior roles in the private sector so understands finance and so did Kwarteng. Reeves has shown no signs of understanding how business and the economy works, no, but I don't think she has worked in the private sector and is a socialist so wouldn't expect her to.

Well that is a baseless wish. There won't be a general election for three years.Thank goodness. I hope the country makes up before then

It was a global financial crisis that started in the USA. It wasn't Gordon Browns fault. He actually saved the banks. Without the action he took the UK would have suffered much more.

I am generally a Labour voter but can’t stand KS.

The freebies - appalling lack of judgement from somebody who claimed to be “completely different” to the Tory cash for access/Michelle Mone/covid VIP route corruption.

The U-turns - honestly doesn’t seem to have any convictions of his own or any political direction.

Mandelson - again, no political judgement whatsoever, and then throws anyone he can under the bus instead of taking responsibility for making a dreadful decision.

So it is less his politics I object to, and more the fact that he is an absolutely useless wishy-washy PM with no political sense whatsoever and no convictions of his own.

Because despite being a liberal lawyer he's brought in laws that put people in prison for expressing a view...yet others stay free
That as chief of the legal system he didn't encourage the police to further examine Saville
That his first policy was an attack on the old who are considered to support the torys...ignoring the fact that many are struggling

Which laws did Starmer bring in that "put people in prison for expressing a view"? When did those laws come into force?

@Su1rlie @Tryagain26 @TemperanceWest I do know about the sub-prime mortgages in the US

We were talking about the banks going bust and the economic crisis and I thought I would try and keep it on track for the UK, given how the discussion was going

that's why I mentioned international factors later in my post

I can't recall who it was who talked about the financial crash - I thought it was @Su1rlie Apologies if I got posts muddled in my head. I think I was originally trying to reply to your post when the financial crash came up.

You sound hysterical and overly dramatic.

That's a bit strong, previouslyknownas.

Starmer is a human being, he makes mistakes. I've yet to know someone who doesn't and politicians make loads of them.

He upset the US so badly over the war that we had to send The King over to smooth things over.

He has been instrumental in hounding our British servicemen through the courts on utterly spurious and retrospective grounds. He and Hermer knew that the heinous accusations from Afghanistan were lies. They disgust me.

He is allowing the terrible Chagos deal to go through despite the legal case being shaky and seems very selective when he is bothered about the law.

He claimed that some women have a penis and has utterly failed to require his ministers and government to follow the law, letting down so many women.

An awful man.

I thought it was Polanski who said the penis thing, CornishDaughteroftheDawn .

Oh do fuck off, the man is a compulsive liar and a total wet wipe

Liz Truss years??? Were you in a Time Machine? It was a matter of months ffs 🤦‍♀️

I don’t get the dislike either

I like him too but I think the reason he is not popular is his speech impediment. He struggles with flow, he is nasal and unfortunately it affects people’s opinions of him, without them realising why I think. Quality of voice is very important in politics.

Think about the top Labour MPs who the public have a favourable opinion of… David Lammy, Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper, Wes Streeting.

Now think of the ministers who get a lot of stick. Rachel Reeves, Ed Milliband, Lisa Nandy, Angela Rayner. Not a minister but Diane Abbott.

What do these two groups have in common with each other?

Having a speech impediment in politics is a huge obstacle to overcome. I feel bad for pointing this out as it’s a horrible thing to say, but it is true- and research shows it.

Unconscious bias is subtle and often not obvious to the person judging, so it is not openly hostile, but it does affect perceptions of competence, authority, intelligence, confidence, and trustworthiness. I think Gordon Brown’s clicky jaw made him difficult to watch as well as his serious demeanour. He was fine running the economy but when he became PM the public didn’t warm to him.

David Milliband was way more popular with the public than his brother Ed and I’ve often wondered if it is because of his speech. I’ve read a lot of people recently saying David should come back into politics and try to become PM!

The public are cruel judging these professionals on the way they speak, but I honestly don’t think most people realise how unfair they are being. Similar with certain accents and individuals have to unfairly over compensate.

Labour has an unusually high concentration of ministers with speech impediments. So many comments on here saying they don’t like Starmer’s voice/ struggle to listen to him. A lot of work has gone into improving his speech apparently so they knew it was an issue for public acceptance. I feel bad for pointing this out but it has to be said as Reform are knocking on No 10 now.

What I find fascinating about Starmer is how much stronger the reaction would be if any other politician had done the same things. With Starmer, the default assumption seems to be that he's too much of a wet blanket to possibly have done any of it on purpose.

Agree with every word of this, although I would add. . .

Reluctance to order a national inquiry into the rape gangs and actually a real coldness I feel he handled this issue with. Can't quite put my finger on it, but didn't like it.

I'll never forget his display in Southport. Pretty much chucking the flowers on the ground and scuttling away to attend a dinner event. The country needed leadership at that point, he dodged it.

The trans nonsense prior to the high court ruling.

I don't think he's necessarily a terrible individual, just an awful PM.

I'm usually a Labour voter but I find Starmer very unappealing as leader.
So conceited and so lacking in empathy.

I’m a small business owner getting pummelled by Labour but right now I’d rather Keir than anyone else in labour. We all just need some stability.

I said Mandelson had been brought right back to the heart of government, not that he had a govt post. It’s now well known that questions were being asked about why he was allowed to sit in on meetings and gain access to briefings etc. Starmer has been McSweeney’s and Mandelson’s useful puppet but it’s all blown up in their faces.