... not to understand the loathing of Keir Starmer?

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

So many people who haven't voted Labour, whether they used to or not, say they haven't voted Labour in yesterday's elections because of Keir Starmer. Is that shorthand for 'the current state of the Labour Party' or is it genuinely a real dislike of the man himself? He seems very bland and inoffensive to me, and in some ways is doing an OK job - e.g. in keeping us out of Trump's war without rupturing relations with the US. Maybe his blandness is the problem. Can anyone explain why people have this reaction to Starmer?

Its a protection from abuse of power.

Proven time and time again to check despotic decisions by government.

Hugely important and relatively recent in human history a civilising process we are undoing

Businesses are closing left right and centre or reducing staff and putting their prices up causing inflation because of the combination of raising the minimum wage, increased NI and increased energy bills. I don't expect Labour MPs to realise this as they're mindless dross but Starmer is the public face of this and all their other unpopular policies as well as the fact he gives the impression of not working in the country's interests (Chagos, persecuting soldiers, droning on about the far right all the time whilst not mentioning Islamist terrorism which is by far the greatest threat to people's safety). I could go on as there is so much more. He comes across as a soulless man.

How can he be decent though when he clearly pushed for Mandelson to get a top job knowing he was as dodgy as hell, and threw one of his senior managers under the bus to save his own skin? He fought against losing Raynor when it was obvious she had purposefully avoided paying tax. Seems he has pretty poor judgement when it comes to people he surrounds himself with. He seems to have spent most of his time as PM clearing up all the crap created by his chums - Mandelson, Raynor, Reeves, so hasn’t got anything done. He’s weak.

The thing with Keir is that, if you remember before he got elected, he said he would “clean up politics”. And then immediately after getting in was accepting freebies left right and centre. And the most recent furorę over mandelson…how could he get that so wrong? A man of extremely poor judgement.

I don't loath him but I don't understand what he's trying to achieve as PM.

The mood of the country is pretty negative at the moment and we really need a leader who can fill us with a sense of hope that someday soon things are going to turn a corner. Starmer doesn't seem to be capable of doing that.

Sacking people every time he gets it wrong doesn’t help. But really there’s loads of reasons and it’s come back strongly in feedback. Even Labour MPs have said there is deep dislike.

Sadly I think there has been a negative narrative ever since he was elected and it's difficult to change it.
He is a decent honest man but he is being blamed for all the ills in the UK ans not given any credit for the progress that has actually been made.
I feel worried that the UK is sleepwalking into the disaster of a Reform Government.

So do you have a better economics qualification than a PPE from Oxford and an MSC from LSE? Because those are Reeves qualifications.
for comparison, Sunak has a degree in PPE from Oxford and an MBA (Stanford)
Kwarteng studied Classics and History at Oxford and a PhD in economic history (Cambridge)
Osbourne had a degree in Modern History from Oxford.

@Rocket1982 Id say Sunak and May were hard working, and I didn’t doubt their ability to try and move the country forward. Sunak certainly does understand economics and May had a better EU deal. We had unruly MPs trying to get them out though, and effectively they did!

Labour really should not be copying Labour and their rules regarding ousting a leader are more difficult than the Tories. The big problem is who else? There’s no obvious candidate who will stick there head above the parapet! One favourite isn’t even an mp. What’s the odds on him not finding a safe seat now? They will have to stick with KS and stop aping the Tories in thinking changing a leader is a quick fix. Anyone sensible knows it’s not!

They didn’t listen or act hard enough on concerns about the level of immigration,
@DontKillSteve is that why they’ve massively reduced it?

Why do these things matter for a leader?
Superficial nonsense.

I don’t get it either. He seems like a decent man to me, and let’s face it, any politician leading the country is going to have a huge job at the moment with everything going on in the world. I don’t get how someone looks at Farage and his fairy tail politics and decides Kier is the problem. Let’s all remember this in a few years time.

I just don't feel I know what he actually thinks. He seems to me to say whatever is most politically expedient at any given time, or says what his advisors have told him will be popular or effective. His judgement appears to be lacking - hence the Mandelson issue, the 'women have a cervix is something that shouldn't be said', the peerage for Matthew Doyle. I don't hate him but I certainly don't trust him. I think he is one of many Labour men who think that because they consider themselves to be 'good guys' they don't need to try to dismantle the boys club that is Westminster (or even admit that it exists and they are part of it).

I agree with this. I think he's a decent man but he's maybe not charismatic enough to persuade people to vote for him?I edit ( and some of his policies turned off lots of people, specifically removing the 2 child limit on benefits which I think most of Britain supported).

I also don't get the hatred towards Starmer. He certainly isn't doing a good job as PM, as he has no authority in his own party. And he showed poor judgement over Mandelson. But I don't see that he’s done anything heinous enough to be deserving of the hostility there is towards him IMO.

I think it's because of the media and social media, currently desperate for another leadership contest.

I strongly disagree. 12 people who, if they so wish, can choose not to convict someone despite finding them to have actually broken the law.
12 people who all have a different interpretation of 'beyond reasonable doubt' or 'satisfied that they are sure', mostly incorrect interpretations.
12 people who do not have to provide any explanation whatsoever for their decision. That in likelihood range from 'she shouldn't have worn that' to 'but think about his reputation'.
At least if a judge has to explain his bias or illogical reasoning and can therefore be challenged. Not sure what input the govt has here either other than perhaps sentencing, but that's not a jury's job anyway.

But anyway, bringing it back to this thread, the move away from jurys has been in train since before labour came back to power so even if you don't agree it can hardly be blamed on starmer.

I think unfortunately there are some things that perhaps shouldn’t be influential but are. He doesn’t come across as strong which is important for a leader getting his message across. He has an unpleasant voice. I don’t know what it is with Labour and nasally speakers. However there’s also the more important issue that he doesn’t seem to have a strong vision or message either. If he just had a boring weak presentation style but strong well communicated policies then that might be ok but he doesn’t seem to have either.

The only time he seems to have shown some strength is against Trump and that’s gained him support but it’s not enough as it needs to be domestically too. Often he just comes across as trying to please everyone and so pleases no one. Before he was PM I hoped he was just holding back to not upset people so he could become PM and then enact his vision. But he’s continued on in this manner and doesn’t have much of a vision that I can see.

I think as well the right wing are good at going after him. There’s a perception that’s sunk in with many people about him and it’s hard to shift now.

What I find hard to understand is the appeal of Farage but then I felt that way about Boris too. I’m Scottish though so I think there’s a difference in political culture.

You have to have a 5 year plan to tackle it. I can't believe it wasn't the headline on his manifesto.
Balancing the books and making tough decisions is his and his governments job. But he needs to sit down and look at all spending and taxes top to bottom.

This is AI generated...... deary me

I agree. It’s really, really weird.

He’s been disappointing but has done nothing to explain the sheer loathing some people have for him.

Coming across well to the British public isn’t superficial if you’re are the Prime Minister.

I agree he's a decent person but can't get past Labours terrible policies. I think he should have stuck to being a lawyer.

I'm not talking about food. I'm saying the amount of taxes the country collects should mean we don't have massive debts and massive interest payments on the debts.

Yes all countries have and need debt but uncontrolled spending and wasting money whilst allowing others to avoid paying taxes is ridiculous. Labour just don't have a plan to fix the country.

I loath KS because he and RR squandered the opportunity to fix the economy by pursuing naive socialist policies on a capitalist economy.

They made the mistake of thinking people wanted Labour, they didn't they just wanted anything but the tories.

His reaction that it's the electorates fault that they "aren't seeing the benefits" is delusional. I hope he stays long enough to completely destroy the party.