... not to understand the loathing of Keir Starmer?

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

So many people who haven't voted Labour, whether they used to or not, say they haven't voted Labour in yesterday's elections because of Keir Starmer. Is that shorthand for 'the current state of the Labour Party' or is it genuinely a real dislike of the man himself? He seems very bland and inoffensive to me, and in some ways is doing an OK job - e.g. in keeping us out of Trump's war without rupturing relations with the US. Maybe his blandness is the problem. Can anyone explain why people have this reaction to Starmer?

I don't understand it either OP. I just watched the BBC news where they were interviewing people in Barnsley (who've all voted Reform) and who were full of dislike for Starmer. And it appeared to be very personal. Not that any of them actually said what Starmer had done, or could do better.

Indeed. I remember for years the slagging off of the cold weather payment, including on here 'my parents use theirs towards a cruise every year', 'Mil spent her cold weather payment on a new leather coat' etc etc. So when Labour did something about it, there was up roar - poor pensioners freezing in their garrett, it's disgusting..... So mitigations were put in, but that still wasn't good enough.

Word has it that Labour weren't supposed to win the last election. Starmer was supposed to be the placeholder and eventual fall guy while the acolytes of Mandelson got rid of the last traces of the left within the party. Streeting is their man and they were aiming for 2029. NHS sell off, neoliberal bollocks left, right and centre.

Getting rid of Starmer is all well and good but what we end up with might have everyone wishing he'd been left well alone to get on with the job.

You said he wasn’t delivering on the manifesto. That’s not true.

Yes it was. Certainly when I read it.

You obviously haven’t been watching him since he was DPP and beyond. He is far from bland, but also a terrible politician.

He's a lot better than our other recent prime ministers. He may not be inspiring but he is hardworking and he seems to care about people and the country. Despite the odd free ticket to a football match I don't think he's as self-serving as Johnson, Sunak or Truss. We can't keep getting rid of prime ministers every year, we need some stability and he may not be very charismatic, but we need to give him a chance to do his job and some time to work on addressing some of the UK's big structural problems.

Have you any comments that aren’t superficial? Why do those things matter in a politician?

It wasn’t. It was discussed and reported on at the time of the rise as well.

i don’t loathe or hate him I just think he’s been absolutely ineffectual and wishy washy and I expected so so much more from him. I was SO excited and hopeful when he became leader.

Word has it? What word’s that then? Honestly, this is utter nonsense.

He’s so decent. And accomplished. And HANDSOME ! A silver fox.

It was. I remember it and remember the reporting when employers’ NI was increased.

We have had p8ss poor prime ministers for the last 20 odd years so comparing him to them is ridiculous but he is bad on every level. It would be fine if her had a boring voice but was competent. But then I would never (and have never) vote Labour, they have no knowledge of economics or anything else.

Christ, how shallow.

Labour will not increase taxes on working people, which is why we will not increase National Insurance, the basic, higher, or additional rates of Income Tax, or VAT.

we will not increase national insurance.

I know there are different ways of reading it, but I read that as not at all.

I understand you read it differently and I appreciate your view. I disagree however.

In just 2 years!

Perceived negatives:

• Winter Fuel Payment cut
• Broken promises and U-turns
• Lack of charisma
• No clear vision ("What is Starmerism?")
• Illegal immigration / small boats
• "Two-Tier Keir" policing
• Grooming gangs inquiry delay
• Angela Rayner resignation / internal scandals
• Housing promises falling flat
• Creeping authoritarianism / heavy-handed riot sentencing
• Chagos Islands deal
• Peter Mandelson appointment
• Employers' National Insurance hike
• WASPI women betrayal
• Farmers' inheritance tax / tractor protests
• Hounding of veterans
• Handling of Stockport

Marmite (good for some, bad for others):

• Two-child benefit cap removal
• Palestine / proscription of Palestine Action
• Welfare cuts / "welfare reform"
• Closer EU ties

Not really his fault but he gets the blame:

• NHS waiting lists
• Cost of living
• Defence spending

The quote is "Labour will not increase taxes on working people, which is why we will not increase National Insurance, the basic, higher, or additional rates of Income Tax, or VAT"
I don’t know how obtuse you need to be to not see that the second part of that sentence refers to the first part - ie no increase on those taxes for working people. It’s wilful misinterpretation to read it any other way.

He’s not a visionary. He’s also a lawyer and as such there is too much dithering and navel gazing. The party are in thrall to their left and spend too much time infighting. They didn’t listen or act hard enough on concerns about the level of immigration, the amount spent on benefits and the high % of council tax on the bottomless pit that is ‘social care’ and ‘send provision’, while public services have turned to shit. The country is filthy, overcrowded and people don’t want the precious green belt lost. They had a good majority and should have been braver and pushed through change. It’s been a wasted time and people (feeling poorer and more desperate) have lost patience.

I say this as an ex Labour voter who this time voted for Libdems as my own protest vote. Would they be any better? Possibly not. I have no interest in Reform and it would be a cold day in hell before I voted to resuscitate the Tories, who were the instigators of much of this mess we are in. I hated Brexit. I think a move away from 2 party politics will be a good thing, they are entrenched in out of touch ideology, lazy and entitled. The whole thing needs a kick up the arse.

As I said you disagree and you are entitled to. 🙂

I think he's power hungry, hypocritical, bitter and utterly incompetent. He's very obviously way out of his depth, and hasn't the faintest idea of how to run a country. I actually think he'd struggle to run a small high street company, he just doesn't seem to have any complexity of thought; he can seemingly only focus on one thing at a time, whereas the entire job of PM is to understand the interaction and effect of multitudes of factors. He's waved through absolutely insane policies that are demonstrably causing immense harm, such as making it drastically more expensive and risky to employ people, in a low growth economy with rising unemployment. The vast majority of the policies that have been implemented seem entirely borne from ideology rather than understanding (I'm struggling to think of any that aren't pure ideology actually), and very often they're entire purpose seems to be 'annoying Tory voters'. He is entirely unsuitable as prime minister.

I also think he's the best option Labour currently have and I very much hope he stays.

He’s not just a politician he’s the leader of the country.

What's so good about trial by jury, if the standard of proof for most people judging by this thread is 'he seems like he would/wouldn't be a good laugh down the pub'?

Its weird

He's done alright 😩

He continually slagged off the tories for cronyism while allowing his mates / donors to buy everything but his underpants.

He cant make a decision and stick to it

He screwed over many elderly with the fuel allowance debacle

Refuses to get a grip on the benefits bill, imigration numbers

His appointment for AG has actively persued soldiers based on false allegations

Scapegoated members of the civil service rather than take responsibility for decisions

Net zero

Stating women can have penises, then they couldnt then avoided the question

His cabinet pushing through rediculous policies - chagos, jury trial changes for eg

My uncle, who has been a labour party member for 60 years says of him he stands for nothing so falls for everythingm

The NHS budget has increased by more than 350 million per week since 2016.