To think the main Mumsnet demographic are out of touch politically

[Veiledveritas]

Reform.are smashing the polls yet any Reform voter is despised and ridiculed on here.

By voting.

Scotland has given Reform..the big Get Tae Fuck.❤️🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

If you vote Reform, youre a bit of a twat I'm afraid.

Not excusing their overt rascism and misogyny is not being out of touch, its being in touch with your morality.

Great. I would be up for a referendum on which values we want to make the default for people living in the UK. Overall, although the votes are split between various different parties, the UK electorate tends overall to lean centre left, so I would be happy with that. I definitely don't think the racists are in the majority.

You are concerned and upset that non-Reform voters aren't showing respect to Reform voters even though they have won lots of council seats and now control many councils. However, have Reform voters ever shown respect to voters of other parties, particular those who are left of centre?

Many Reform voters hold extreme right-wing views on immigrants and immigration and Reform's new policy is to put immigrant detention centres in constituencies who don't have a Reform MP or a Reform councillor. Can you imagine the outcry if a Labour Government decided to subsidise public transport so that bus journeys were free but only in places with a Labour MP? Governments and Councils shouldn't be using the power of their office to punish people who didn't vote for them. It's the playbook of Donald Trump who is using the power of the Presidency to settle scores and punish his opponents. No-one should show that type of politics any respect at all.

Gosh, and you actually said that out loud.

But societal values and norms are traditional or hard fought for. Of course individuals might differ to certain extents but society needs common norms and values to function otherwise people are pulling in lots of different directions.

So, for example women in Britain have fought long and hard for equal rights, so another culture in the UK that says women should cover their bodies whereas men are free to do what they want cannot possibly work with gender equality in the UK.

You can see the difference can’t you?

We are building far too many houses now. He have had a falling birthrate for years we shouldn’t need this many houses.

We have a rising population. And that population is also increasingly needing more houses as families split with divorce and separation.

I don't know if the statistics would agree, but it also seems to me that people who used to expect to rent a room in someone else's house now expect a single person use of a flat or small house.

My small town has seen thousand upon thousand of houses built in the last 5 years. The thousand that I can see in construction in a short walk from my own new property at the moment look as if they are all being sold, and occupied as soon as they are ready.

It’s true though

Absolutely, the rights that previous generations have fought for should stay. So we need to carry on fighting against racism, preserve our welfare state, protect the NHS, stay in the ECHR, keep the equalities act etc in order to uphold the values that many of us were brought up with. Couldn't agree more.

The government actually gets schools to teach British values.

a few years ago I had the delightful task of writing some of my schools pshe curriculum (and what a dogs breakfast that is!) and one of the compulsory topics is British values.

the government has defined them.

https://www.votesforschools.com/blog/british-values/

They are

respect for the rule of law
Individual liberty
democracy
Mutual respect and tolerance for different faiths and beliefs.

you will note that there is nothing there about equality for women or indeed anything about women or men at all.

And yes that does feed into things. But according to the governments own statistics 10% of the population in the UK in 2025 we born outside the EU (with a further 6% born in the EU as defined in 2025) https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/ this is a far bigger issue. Alongside that we need to be supporting people to try and ensure more marriages and relationships are surviving.

Approximately 10% of migrants have poor/nonexistent English.

It’s quite a sweeping statement to me that they’re ’addressing the concerns of the country’. Clearly they are speaking to the concerns of a proportion of people (though less people than last time around, interestingly). I’d also argue that they’ve massively contributed to creating and fanning those concerns, to their own benefit. But from the councils in power so far, we can see that very little has been ‘addressed’ in any sense. That is probably at least partly because Reform policy is very focused on headline issues that are far beyond what local government can do.

And we could discuss more widely why that isn’t included in the curriculum (where the teacher also confirmed that my son could identify as a train if he wanted - the curriculum has increasingly become an absolute nonsense)

But most decent people would think equality between the sexes is a value we hold dear in this country, even if it’s aspirational still in many areas, that is the aim.

Or are you saying equality of the sexes is not a value of British society?

I disagree. It is about raw numbers.

We are already in a position where we are unable to feed our own population. If exports stopped tomorrow; many people would starve to death.

In theory we could end up a futuristic country-city, all living in 100 story flats with a complex network of sky gardens and hydroponics to feed everybody, and micro properties with fold out furniture and so on, but do you actually want this?

You seem to measure human life quality simply by a series of numbers, whereas we are aware it’s about far more than this. You could have 5* health services, a high salary and so on, and still be utterly miserable due to a lack of nature, a life which is just far too overstimulating due to overcrowding and a total detachment from self reliance. Do you want this?

This is why Reform are flying high. Because quality of life isn’t just measured by GDP and how many extra medical staff and roads we’ve added this year. People want moments of happiness - to drink in a pub without paying £10 a pint, to be in nature without every last square foot being accounted for under farming or housing. To be able to have a decent garden to relax in, to have peace in their homes and not constantly listening to congested traffic and people yelling and spitting. You seem to think it’s all about clever accounting and finding ‘solutions’.

Are they still going for the SNP or did Nicola Sturgeon fuck that up?

How have you calculated the number of people in your comment? You do realise many areas did not hold elections.

What era would you like to return to?

And without field after field shiny and black with solar panels.

Why does it have to be a specific time, why can’t it be morals, norms and values and quality of life that previously existed at various times?

I don’t understand what you’re asking? I haven’t calculated anything.

So before I write this I would like to be clear that I personally think equality between the sexes is a good thing.

i do not think we currently have it in Britain nor do I think we ever have had in the past so I don’t think it can really be argued that it is a British value.

for much of British history up until at least the 1950s it would have been considered by most British people that the sexes were obviously not equal and by many of them that it was not a good thing that they should try to be.

It doesn’t, but the poster I was replying to said they wanted to return Britain to what it was, which does imply an era.

Morals, norms and values have changed throughout history and generally the ones that were wanted were retained. So you could argue the Britain of today is the one we have all worked for.

This feels just like Brexit. How can people justify broad statements like 'Immigration needs massively reigning back' when the detailed economic analysis simply does not support that view.

Small boat crossings and asylum seekers are a tiny fraction of total migration. The majority of migration is legal and government approved, a Reform government would approve it as well. Why do governments approve it? Because we depend on it, like all other wealthy countries...

                                                                                                                         We cannot proceed just on people's feelings fueled by Farage and his cronies who will say one thing and then do another when in power. Let's accept  that people clearly fancy having 'less foreigners' around as this theme is not going away. BUT the facts, are that the UK <span class="italic">needs </span>immigration. You may not like it, but it is true. Japan tried to do without it and have had to rethink quickly. 

To repeat my earlier post ... high-income economies go hand in hand with immigration. Without it, the workforce and economy shrink.

Just research the top 10 richest economies by GDP per capita. Do not just go on a feeling you'd like less muslims or whatever. The most successful countries rely on immigration. It is just like Brexit. Do we want to be richer and have trade with foreigners, or do we want to get rid of foreign stuff and be poorer.

I'm repeating myself.. but look at other places...

United States: despite Trump’s rhetoric the US economy depends on a huge migrant workforce.

Switzerland: c25% of the population is foreign-born essential even for their finance industry.

Australia and Canada: again deliberate, proactive immigration-leads growth affecting all sectors

Just ask AI a simple question about what will happen if we massively reign back immigration. The answer is that we would have economic stagnation, huge strain on health and care services, a huge long-term ageing population problem and labour shortages in key industries.

So if some of the anti-immigration brigade accept (even for argument's sake) the fact that we need immigration. What type is then acceptable to you? Is it just stopping the boats? Or stopping all foreign people or just switching to people from different countries, if so where? What about a different approach? Are you happy using workers temporarily to contribute to the economy but ensuring that they then leave? Do you prefer not integrating migrants at all, giving them limited unequal rights? So a Dubai style approach?
.

To be clear I do not want this approach myself but want to know, given we need immigration, what model do Reform voters want?

But where do Reform have any policies on nature, or quality of life, or housing conditions so that people have gardens or local green space, or on health or cost of living?