To think the main Mumsnet demographic are out of touch politically

[Veiledveritas]

Reform.are smashing the polls yet any Reform voter is despised and ridiculed on here.

Yes, because Reform follows the same script. There is not an iota of original thought behind the party. It's MAGA International in all its glory.

“So what you’re advocating is a system that allows women who already use the loopholes to pay less tax, to pay less tax by having another baby? And you’re assuming that no educated women earn less, and don’t care about them having children. So what we end up with, in your fantasy system, is the well off women benefiting, maybe having more kids (which to be honest they could afford anyway), while less wealthy women dictated women are still priced out. Possibly even more so, depending on how the scheme was built. So we can have loads of kids born to (to use your example) corporate lawyers, but not to scientists, nurses, teachers, social workers, academics. And less educated people (or truthfully less well off people) are even less able to have kids, or more kids, despite the essential roles they also fulfil in our society, so we’ll still have to import people to work in the care sector, for example.”

@Allisnotlost1 - I said no such thing. I simply note that the State and current tax system is destroying the middle class and that is pretty dangerous democratically speaking because we will end up with the elite controlling everyone. The educated middle class has to act as a buffer. The tax system in this country towards women especially single mothers earning well is pretty horrendous. There have been countless threads on the subject. I don’t see some women with two kids on 125k a year as ultra privileged. If they live in an expensive City they are really not unless they have other assets. You can’t sell people the education dream and when they just about make it punish them via the tax system.

You suggested a tax system that allowed women to claim back 20k per child. Well who does that benefit? Not women earning minimum wage.

I have no idea what the rest of your post means. The ‘educated middle class’ have no ‘acted as a buffer’ to prevent rising inequality, declining quality of life or rising cost of living, have they? Nor can I see how they ever could.

They do have a policy. It is to allow a fascist, Farage,( viz his school mates evidence of his views, ('Nazis were right, his bullying of Jewish boys etc ) to gain control.

He is not following any British traditions. The British tradition we have built up is to allow people to form political parties, to allow members to suggest policies, to vote on them democratically.

Reform is not a political party in our tradition at all.
Farage has founded it as a limited company where he has total control. There is no possibility of members electing a leader or voting another in. There is no possibility of members changing policies. Farage is showings anti democratic, fascist views in plain sight.

The people of the UK have fought for the right to elect their representatives, the policies of their political parties, over centuries. Farage has broken with this in true fascist tradition. Once elected fascists ban elections, ban other parties, scapegoat minorities, remove rights at work, attack women's rights, claim the destruction of their political enemies is necessary. Send their opponents, anyone who protests, to prisons, concentration camps etc.

We have seen this in Germany and we defeated it in WW2.

I've seen one or two Trump supporters on here.

26% of the vote isn't "smashing the polls". And people who vote for that rabble deserve to be ridiculed when you look at how places like Kent are going. I wouldn't trust them to run a bath let alone a highways department.

I've seen Reform members express extreme concern about what would happen to their "party" if they didn't have Farage in charge. You're right, this is a cult of personality, not a political party, as evidenced by the zealous followers seen here and on other social media.

Do you realise that a few million of "waste" is a rounding error in the context of a turnover of more than £1 trillion? Even £1 billion is 0.1% of the budget.

But voting Reform has got to be better than voting for the antisemitic, boob whispering, drug addict encouraging, let anyone in Green Party. Labour have the economic competence of a 5 year old. The Tories are looking more promising but people need a break. The Lib Dem’s are good in local government generally but haven’t got enough of an ideology to be effective across a wider area with national and international decisions.

As if Reform isn't a racist party. Voting for them isn't even better than cutting off your voting hand with a rusty knife.

I'll take the five year old. More mature than Reform.

That must be why The Greens are investigating 30 of their councillors for Anti-Semitism.

Such a lovely bunch tho!

Whataboutism. But I can play your game.

I see your investigation and see you with convicted and jailed for taking Russian bribes:

Ex-Reform UK in Wales leader Nathan Gill jailed for 10 years for pro-Russia bribes | News UK | Metro News

I don't think you know the meaning of "whataboutism". Someone made a claim that The Greens are a lovely much. I provided evidence that contradicted that claim. That is not "whataboutism".

The Greens and Reform are two sides of the same coin - both steeped in identity politics and populism, and both with more than their fair share of racists.

“You suggested a tax system that allowed women to claim back 20k per child. Well who does that benefit? Not women earning minimum wage.”

@Allisnotlost1 - up to 20k is to reflect childcarers costs in expensive areas. Switzerland for example, allows even greater dedications. There is a set rate per child (I think it is like 5500 flat per child) and then additional deductions for childcare depending on age.
It is what some people are having to spend out of post tax income. Of course it puts people off having more children! There have been several threads about this already. Other countries are putting in things like this to address a reducing birthrate, it is not controversial in such places. It is not a novel concept, at all.

In what way is the Green party populist?

I can see the benefits to those who use it, but we started by discussing ways to increase the birth rate. Switzerland’s birth rate, like many other countries, hit an all time low in 2024. So tax breaks don’t have the desired effect, though they benefit high earning women in other ways.

Switzerland increased the tax deduction for childcare to boost the birth rate at a federal level. Different cantons have different deductions. The more expensive the City the greater the deduction typically to account for cost of living.
Whereas here we have penalised higher earning women and families. Not only can they not deduct, nurseries have had to put rates up for them to subsidise those getting free hours. It’s shambolic and so is the private school VAT.

ZP has described himself as such.

(a) Polanski described himself as eco populist.
(b) The description of eco populism was an attempt to reclaim the term populism.
(c) Polanski is not the Green Party.

I'm not a Green party supporter but I think it's really lazy to take a term like populism, a concept that is impacting on our political landscape in a negative way, and lump all and sundry in with it.

If populism is about pitting the ordinary people against some established elite, I would say that the Greens fit that definition. Farage's elites are the EU, or the woke blob of the civil service, whereas ZP's are the wealth hoarding and polluting billionaires.

I'd instinctively disagree with that donut would be good if you could expand to give me the opportunity to understand your argument more clearly.

I never disagree with a donut.

Ok, that doesn't make a lot of sense.

You said it.