aibu to think grandparents are just expected to know their place now?

[justme39]

honestly feeling quite upset and not sure if i’m being unreasonable or not.

my ds and dil had their first baby a few months ago and ever since it’s just been rule after rule after rule. no kissing baby, no picking him up straight away if he cries because theyre trying to teach self soothing, dont call him my baby because apparently thats boundary crossing now 🙄

i’ve kept my mouth shut mostly because i dont want drama but yesterday i honestly felt humiliated. baby was asleep on me and i kissed the top of his head without even thinking and dil immediately goes we’re not doing that in this really sharp voice in front of everyone. atmosphere after was awful.

i do feel there’s a lack of respect if i’m honest. i’ve raised 3 children perfectly well, all grown adults with good jobs and houses etc so its not like i dont know what im doing. yet if i mention he looks cold or maybe he’s overtired suddenly im undermining.

another thing that upset me was photos. i put ONE picture on facebook after he was born because family were asking and you’d think i’d leaked government documents. ds rang me asking me to remove it because dil was really anxious. i did remove it but i wont lie i cried after because it just feels like nothing i do is right.

i’ve also offered loads of help. meals, cleaning, having baby so they can nap etc but apparently they want to figure things out themselves. then dil posts online about how exhausted she is all the time. i honestly dont know what we’re meant to do anymore as grandparents except buy things and sit there quietly.

now ds hardly messages unless she’s included as well which never used to happen

aibu to think younger parents are so obsessed with boundaries and gentle parenting they forget other people have feelings too?

Exactly, you go against medical advice and give your grandkid RCV or HSV! You put their life in danger because of your selfishness!

But why would you put a photo on Facebook? That's performative and not yours to post. Why not just send a photo to the specific family members that ask for one?

And why would you call the child "your baby"? That's just freaking weird. It sounds like you intend to take control or will go nutty and kidnap the child. As a new mum it would make me retreat to safety with my baby too.

I don't understand their issue with a quick kiss on top of the head (not near the face), and the idea of a very small baby self soothing sounds unlikely to me.

I think this generation of new parents are the "covid" generation. Some have been affected by the idea of illness and are hypersensitive. All you can do is offer help and build the mother's trust.

Nope.

yes i was told not to post baby online and i did which i know was wrong now however i was just excited to show him off as he is my first grandchild. saying my baby part is just a natural expression as he is my family, why would he not be my baby? i’m not threatening to take him away!

OP knew not to post him online.

I think DIL is getting a hard time here. The no kiss rule is quite standard these days after there were some headlines about newborns dying from herpes spread by kisses from relatives with the cold sore virus. I personally also had a no kissing rule while they are tiny - it is just not worth the risk imo. And while I know you did it without thinking, if you knew they had this rule then it's not at all unreasonable that she felt a little annoyed you had gone against it and reminded you of it.

No photos is a perfectly legitimate ask. It isn't clear if you knew they didn't want social media photos or not before posting. If you did, then you are being v.unreasonable. If you didn't then it was a harmless mistake although you really should have asked before posting which is standard etiquette these days. Your crying afterwards seems a bit OTT - apologise and move on.

As for them getting annoyed at you commenting on baby being tired or looking cold - I think that is probably down to insecurity and you making them feel inadequate while they find their feet. But equally, you need to remember that they know their baby better than anyone. Unless the baby is in danger then tbh I would keep your opinions to yourself.

You wish your MIL had trampled over your boundaries? OP is clearly bossy and critical by disregarding perfectly normal boundaries.

I agree that you should have asked before posting the photo, but you did take it down.

OP admitted that she knew before posting it that they didn't want photos on social media. OP might have a lot of experience but it's clearly outdated if she isn't aware of the risks of kissing a baby.

She didn’t trample over my boundaries except by being passive aggressive. And cold. If she’d have showed any interest in bonding with her grandchildren, I’d have been thrilled. I did my best to ignore her comments and raise our children the way we chose. I did not bully her like her DIL seems to. Possibly for understandable reasons as a first time mum. But I understand OP’s hurt feelings. My own mother was deceased by the time I had children and I would have welcomed loving support and advice from MIL. Even sincere interest. If we disagreed on anything, I’d have hoped to manage it without a lot of hurt feelings. But that was not an option. I think they should all take a deep breath and calm down. Grandma should sincerely apologize for violating their rules. And in time, as they get used to the routine of
being a family, they should lighten up.

The whole not kissing thing is so insipid.

I'm sure this was a trend in the 1950s as part of some weird psychological experiment and shown to be detrimental to the baby which was, of course, the whole point of the experiment.

If I come across the study, I'll post it here for reference.

Just another example of the degradation of family values. The mum and MIL used to be matriarchs of the family and sought after for wisdom. Now, we have FB and IG so who needs family, anymore?

Sad state of affairs.

Reread what I wrote, OP is trampling over her DS and DDILs boundaries.

OP was asked not to post the child on social media, she did it anyway.
OP was asked not to kiss the baby, she did it anyway.
OP was asked not to call her grandson "her baby", she resents this.
OP was asked not to give unsolicited advice and criticism, she resents this.

OP won't sincerely apologise because she clearly feels as if she has done nothing wrong.

Insipid? It's NHS guidance? https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/neonatal-herpes/

Do you mean Harry Harlow's monkey experiments on infant attachment? Because you're misinterpreting what that experiment showed. It was about whether the monkeys become more attached to the "mother" who provided comforting physical contact but no food, or the "mother" who was more harsh but provided food. Yes, the monkeys overwhelmingly preferred the comforting mothers over the harsh mothers but it's very easy to be comforting without kissing. Holding, rocking, talking to the baby, reacting to the baby etc and all just as effective in creating that bond without the risk of RSV,

As an aside, screw Harlow. His isolation experiments on those monkeys where incredibly cruel.

Maybe it was the monkey thing. I can't remember. I studied psychology and dropped out at the very end because I hated the whole concept.

Harlow was evil.

Anyway, I don't rate the NHS or their advice but I guess others do and that is causing an issue.

Thanks for highlighting new advice, btw, it's been a long time since I had a newborn!

When/if I'm a grandmother, I will be kissing my GC all over but I'm lucky I have daughters rather than DILs. The relationships seem tricky.

Speaking of, I may be a crap DIL. Will reflect and come back on that point!

When/if I'm a grandmother, I will be kissing my GC all over but I'm lucky I have daughters rather than DILs. The relationships seem tricky.

It's not a daughter vs DIL law thing. It's a not wanting to risk a newborn's life with HSV, RSV, a cold, flu etc while their immune systems are incredibly vulnerable.

No wonder your DS and DIL were pissed off with you! You totally disregarded their expressed wishes when you posted the photo. You obviously are one of those people who always think they know best and can do what they want and are shocked when there are negative consequences.

Also, your grandchild is not 'your' baby. There are loads of other terms of endearment that you could use to show your love for your grandchild but you chose one that was bound to put their backs up, especially considering your other behaviour.

Only commenting on the "my baby" part of this thread cos I actually feel really relieved reading PP comments.

My partners sister lives in another country, never sees our two v young children apart from Christmas when she comes back to England.

She has seen them less than a handful of times.

Yet - since before she even met them - she has called them "my baba's".

She will blank my fiance for ages then send a random message saying "send me pics of my baba's". It's the only thing she messages 90% of the time! Just a totally random message demanding photos of "her baba's" even though my partner will have messaged her things and she just ignores it.

Even when she speaks of them in general, they're - guess what - her baba's.

Sorry but they're not your fucking baba's, they're MY CHILDREN, if you want baba's then fucking have them yourself!! But she has no children so thinks (seemingly) she can just leech mine every now and then??

It has fucking wound me up to no end since the start, and I've genuinely started to question whether it was me being unreasonable for feeling this way.

Urgh sorry for trauma dumping but this has upset me for ages and I'm genuinely relieved it isn't just me that doesn't like this terminology

I think it sounds like your dip is having a hard time and becoming really controlling as a consequence. Maybe she has post natal? I just listened to this podcast and it made me sad to think how hard it is to be a parent these days. But yes, I think you’re right op

Definitely not. I think it’s far more common in American culture to be close to extended family still than it is here nowadays.

I think your DIL sounds incredibly anxious to be honest and your DS is trying to keep her happy. I know it’s hard not to take it personally but she’s obviously quite set in her ways and wants things on her terms. Perhaps it’ll change when the baby grows a little.

of course you should know your place - and it is no different now than years ago
your are not the baby's parent

We all managed to live before this advice. It seems dramatic but we don't have to agree.

You have survivorship bias.

Most people also managed to survive lead paint, smoking & a lack of seatbelts in cars. Not many advocates for those these days either, because we now know the risks.

Maybe you have fear bias?

Not a grandparent yet but do have nieces and nephews who have had babies. You have to respect their ideas and give up any sense of entitlement. Stay quiet and eventually they will realize that you have their backs and can help. Let them come to that realization themselves.

WOW!

This is clearly quite a triggering topic!

Are you one of those people who don’t believe in proper car seats or something

I believe what I believe and you're entitled to speculate and make up stories about my beliefs if that makes you feel better.

The point is that all didn't live, that's called survivor bias. RSV kills 20-30 babies annually in the UK and is the cause of 30,000 hospitalisations. Is it worth the risk?

It's like saying "my baby didn't die when they slept on their front with a cot bumper so it's fine"

"Car seats weren't a thing when I had my baby and she was fine, the law is so dramatic."

@Sartre My personal experience of "homegrown" Scottish and Irish families is that extended families are predominantly a thing. For example, as a GP I do the school dropoff & pickup. There are scores of us doing that here in the Highlands. The parents are working.

My English friends not so much - they seem to drop off & go.

Cultural thing?

Curious if NHS Scotland or NI offers same advice re kissing as they did not 9 years back.