Was I U to tell a doctor she’ll understand when she’s a mum?

[Calmondeck]

I usually hate when people say things like “you’ll only understand when…”, “you don’t know because you’ve never…” etc etc

But today I found myself telling a newly graduated doctor that she won’t understand until she’s a mother.

For context, a neighbour (aged 4) had a huge crash on their bike. Their helmet was dented from the impact and they had blood gushing from their forehead. There were no other adults around, just myself and my children, I attended to the child until his mother found him. At this point the child and I were covered in so much blood that both our shirts were soaked.

By coincidence the mother had a friend present, a newly graduated doctor, who told us proudly that she’s so used to seeing screaming children and overly anxious parents that she’s immune to it. She just walks into anxious rooms and “ignores the vibe”.

There was a pause, and I found myself saying she’ll understand if she ever becomes a mother.

She didn’t say anything in reply.

This has got under my skin. My child fought cancer for several years at an age where his doctors really relied on my husband and I to interpret his pain, translate toddler speak, spot symptoms etc. The team told us on day 1 of the diagnosis that no one knows the child better than the parents (they actually said mother but I chose to ignore this slightly patriarchal view) and they needed us to be vocal. My husband and I, who are pretty relaxed, originally thought “we’ll trust the professionals (ie the doctors)” but realised quickly that we really did need to point out things.

I see this neighbour almost daily, and will run into her doctor friend undoubtedly over the coming days (she is staying with them). Would it be unreasonable to tell her she needs to stop being immune to upset kids and their appropriately concerned parents?

So not only did you misunderstand her and make an obnoxious comment, but now you want to lecture her again about how to do her job?

Batshit.

Not all women want children. Some of us are even doctors. And exceptionally good at what we do.

In stressful situations I look about as calm as anyone possible could be. Helps the team and the patient. In the moment you do become almost immune to it because you have to be to make split second decisions and assess the situation accurately. Does it mean I don’t care? Of course not.

You were so rude, as well as wrong.

No you are not. She was being an insensitive tone deaf show off. Who cares if she’s immune to the child’s suffering? That immunity does nothing for the child or parents, it’s a totally self centred approach. M The situation was not about her. But the medical profession can be incredibly arrogant so it doesn’t surprise me.

That's not what was said at all. Read the post.

OP I am so sorry to hear your child experienced cancer. That must have been terrifying for you and your family. And maybe subconsciously that trauma you went through has affected how you may now respond to certain situations where there are unwell or hurt children?

I think the comment was unnecessary (as others have pointed out, you have no idea if she can have children or even if she wants them) but given the history you mentioned I can see this being a knee jerk response rather than a deliberate attempt to be mean.

Is it possible the doctor just meant she tries to stay focused? I would like to think she wasn't being dismissive of the worries and concern, rather that she was making a comment about her as a medic needing to stay level headed and calm.

This has got under my skin. My child fought cancer for several years at an age where his doctors really relied on my husband and I to interpret his pain, translate toddler speak, spot symptoms etc. The team told us on day 1 of the diagnosis that no one knows the child better than the parents (they actually said mother but I chose to ignore this slightly patriarchal view) and they needed us to be vocal. My husband and I, who are pretty relaxed, originally thought “we’ll trust the professionals (ie the doctors)” but realised quickly that we really did need to point out things.

I think this has zero relevance to the accident with the 4yo. What the drs meant isn't that because you're a mum you instinctively know if something is wrong, but that you are an expert in one specific patient. There are a lot of doctors still involved in my child's care (been through similar to yours by the sound of it, at a similar age), and whilst they are the experts in their specialism, I am the expert in my child.

If your experience is anything like ours, they also like saying that we are the experts in our child, but still not taking what we say seriously, and then apologising afterwards.

So yes, you were unreasonable for what you said.

But do you rub it in by announcing to the worried parents how unconcerned you are (and therefore better than them)?

I bet (hope) you don't, because that would be outrageously lacking in empathy.

OP i think you're getting a really hard time. In the throes of a stressful and triggering situation you said something it sounds like you're conflicted about - you seem to realise it was OTT but at the same time you're pissed off about parents being belittled, ignored and fobbed off by doctors.

I hear you. I'm sorry for what you've been through.

But gently, let this go. You mean well but going round to lecture the friend of friend on her crappy bedside manner will not be well received. This is probably something she'll have to learn through her own experience at work.

I hope the kid is ok.

I think you are assuming her skills at taking emotion out of a situation in order to effectively deal with the issue in hand equates to her not being bothered or not caring.

But fuck me, you're very very unreasonable to say that to a her. You don't know whether she's not already trying for children. Regardless, she might be very able to understand the upset of seeing a child who is close to you injured she hurt WITHOUT succumbing that upset herself.

I am VERY squealish. I can't watch 24hrs in A&E without hiding behind a cushion and I've fainted before now watching blood being taken. I used to work in the NHS in a role that had very little blood and guts so it wasn't an issue. Until one Lady came into my clinic who'd fallen in the car park and tore all the skin off the palm of her hand. It had come off very cleanly in one sheet, and you could see the sheen of the muscles inside undearneath the big flap of skin. Somehow, and I have no idea, I calmed her down, washed the gravel out, cleaned it up, dressed it and sent her to A&E for stitches and clinical assessment incase she needed plastic surgery involvement. Kept it together and did what was necessary, because, well, that's my job. And once she'd left my civic room I immediately threw up into the waste paper bin. I then had to sit down and call for reception to get me a glass of water and sit with my head between my knees so I didn't faint. I was absolutely shaking. The lady came back the week after with a box of chocolates to show how grateful she was that I'd kept her calm and reassured her. She said that A&E had commented on how well I'd cleaned and dressed it. She was stunned when I told her I was so squeamish I'd been sick in the bin when she left as I'd handled it so well at the time. And you know what? That's a skill I've developed and work damn hard on.

You were patronising and belittling to her skill. As you're going to cross paths with her again I really do think you owe her an apology.

You are upset for unresolved personal reasons. Leave her alone.

As a doctor dealing with infertility, this would be like a punch in the gut to me. Yes, her wording was clumsy for sure. You were incredibly patronising however and this interaction says a lot more about you than it does about her.

I think anyone who utters the words you’ll understand when you’re a mum needs to STFU and not say them, in any situation
you have no clue if they’ve been through cancer and are infertile due to it, if they were born without ovaries, a million other reasons or they simply don’t want children

the only more annoying phrase is “you don’t know true love until you have children”
guess I’ll never know then hey?

The intercom was left on once so I heard the doctor being really sniffy about all the gravel in my dd's knee before I went in - as did everyone else in the surgery. I fucking roasted her when I got in. Had just found out that one of the twins I was carrying had hypoplastic left heart and would not survive beyond a couple of days. On the way home from this appointment dd1 fell over and had so much gravel from the stupid hospital car park embedded in her knee.

I told her very calmly exactly how i felt and how her rudeness had almost sent me over the edge. Her excuse was she didn't know that. My point was she should wait to hear the story.

Don't know if it was a coincidence that our regular gp popped in totally uninvited for a cup of tea that weekend. I hope she learned from it and thought just a little bit before she spoke in future.

She’s a Dr, you are a patient or the parent of a patient. These aren’t the same role. They are both valuable and both protect patients.

It sounds like she had the good manners to restrain herself and not retort to tell you how uppity and condescending you were. I suggest you not make matters worse by bringing it up again.

I actually get why you made the comment. You were offended she thought you were overreacting or whatever. And she'll understand when she's a mum how that type of accident panics a parent. Still, you can't really say that kind of thing as it's such an emotive and offensive comment for many reasons.

Perhaps you could apologise and explain it was the heat of the moment and you shouldn't have said it?

It sounds like a misunderstanding, and honestly like you're projecting your past issues with doctors onto this woman.

Even if she actually was as insensitive as you think she was, there still would have been no need to pull the "you don't have children" card on her. If your point was "I think you need to be more tuned into the child's distress in order to be a good doctor" or "I think you need to listen to parents more, because sometimes we're invaluable in communicating our child's pain", then you could have just said as much. There was absolutely no need to drag her personal life into the conversation.

But then, if you'd just made your points, she might have been able to put forward her own point of view, and I think you just wanted the feeling of an easy win here. This accident triggered memories of your child's illness, and you lashed out. It wasn't about this woman, or this child. It was about you and your child, and the feelings you still hold from that time. So, yes. I'm sorry. I feel for you, but YABU.

And it should go without saying that motherhood doesn't grant a person an instant sense of empathy either. Plenty of mothers remain just as disinterested in other people's children after giving birth as they were before. I see that every day.

I see this neighbour almost daily, and will run into her doctor friend undoubtedly over the coming days (she is staying with them). Would it be unreasonable to tell her she needs to stop being immune to upset kids and their appropriately concerned parents?

Oh god I missed this bottom bit. No don't make it even worse! You've already had a go at her about it-I think she's got the message!

I'm sorry your child had cancer and hope they are doing well.

That doesn't mean your remark wasn't incredibly patronising and unnecessary. Some people will never be parents (whether through choice or not) and can still be excellent doctors. Some doctors could be parents and not be great doctors, the being a parent bit doesn't suddenly enhance their medical practice. Some doctors can be patronising to parents but that's so annoying that it should put people off being patronising!

I don't know what doing so would achieve, her hubris will only likely be pricked through life experience.

But people commenting on here as though having a child isn't the most life altering choice you can make and one that does alter your perception are ignoring a fundamental truth of the human condition. Whether or not she chooses to or is able to have children, does not change the fact that having children would alter her understanding of children and the parental relationship.

How can you say she will understand when she is a mum? Not every woman will have children

@lawandorder2026 I know, I just get where she was going with the comment.

Yes that was a horrible and insensitive thing to say to her.

I think you did the right thing.
she is a young inexperienced doctor. And needs to understand about empathy.
She could have learnt a very important lesson there. So well done. But leave it now you don’t need to say anything else to her.