Was I U to tell a doctor she’ll understand when she’s a mum?

[Calmondeck]

I usually hate when people say things like “you’ll only understand when…”, “you don’t know because you’ve never…” etc etc

But today I found myself telling a newly graduated doctor that she won’t understand until she’s a mother.

For context, a neighbour (aged 4) had a huge crash on their bike. Their helmet was dented from the impact and they had blood gushing from their forehead. There were no other adults around, just myself and my children, I attended to the child until his mother found him. At this point the child and I were covered in so much blood that both our shirts were soaked.

By coincidence the mother had a friend present, a newly graduated doctor, who told us proudly that she’s so used to seeing screaming children and overly anxious parents that she’s immune to it. She just walks into anxious rooms and “ignores the vibe”.

There was a pause, and I found myself saying she’ll understand if she ever becomes a mother.

She didn’t say anything in reply.

This has got under my skin. My child fought cancer for several years at an age where his doctors really relied on my husband and I to interpret his pain, translate toddler speak, spot symptoms etc. The team told us on day 1 of the diagnosis that no one knows the child better than the parents (they actually said mother but I chose to ignore this slightly patriarchal view) and they needed us to be vocal. My husband and I, who are pretty relaxed, originally thought “we’ll trust the professionals (ie the doctors)” but realised quickly that we really did need to point out things.

I see this neighbour almost daily, and will run into her doctor friend undoubtedly over the coming days (she is staying with them). Would it be unreasonable to tell her she needs to stop being immune to upset kids and their appropriately concerned parents?

The only normal (in the traditional sense of this word) doctors I ever encountered, were all religious, either Christian, or Moslem or Bahai, you get the drift - some of them did not have children, but they all saw their gods reflected in patients and treated them as such.

The rest are in the doctorship purely for financial/prestige/cold intellectual curiosity reason, that is it. And unfortunately you can't change them, whatever you tell them.

The only thing for them is that they will get their comeuppance when they are elderly patients on the ward and it will be awful. Comeuppance from their young colleagues who are devoid of compassion. Then they will understand, but it will be too late for them.

I think maybe your issue comes from her using the word ‘overly’…which I think might come across as minimising a situation. And I do get where you’re coming from…if my child and another child were in a similar medical situation, I would feel a lot more worried/distressed etc etc in respect of my DC than the other one. I think when it’s your own you feel things more deeply (that’s my experience anyway). Maybe you could have said it differently but it’s done now so should just leave it there.

In a medical emergency I would definitely want to doctor to be calm etc. I think professionally assessing the situation and responding based on that is completely different to being a parent to an injured child and you can’t compare the two.

You misunderstood what she was saying and made an obnoxious comment.

Not all people will be parents, for all kinds of reasons and the idea that you have some miraculous understanding of the world because you are, is ridiculous.

Imagine if doctors panicked like a young patient’s parents? It would be chaos. The doctors who took care of your son knew that your understanding of him could help his treatment. They understood that because they’re good doctors, regardless of whether they themselves are parents.

This. I wish people would stop assuming every woman wants or can have children. As if that's the main goal in life.

I'm sure plenty of doctors who are parents can also stay calm around screaming children and anxious parents, if they can't they're not a good doctor. Being a parent has nothing to do with it.
What was the full context of this comment? It reads like your cradling an injured child as she stands there and comes out with this comment. I don't think it went down like that though otherwise you'd be more focused on someone saying she's a doctor but standing by whilst you deal with it.

What you said in the moment was fine.

Going round to rattify your 2 pence worth would be rude, patronising and awkward. Don't do that.

By coincidence the mother had a friend present, a newly graduated doctor, who told us proudly that she’s so used to seeing screaming children and overly anxious parents that she’s immune to it. She just walks into anxious rooms and “ignores the vibe”.

I assume you've left out some detail here. Surely the two of them didn't arrive and the doctor friend immediately announce that she's immune to screaming children and overly anxious parents? There must be some additional context?

Another way of understanding her comment is, don't think I don't care or that I'm judging you for being anxious, this is the way I've got used to doing my work.

Really, you are being far too certain that you know what she meant, and that all women react to motherhood in the same way. Don't give her more advice. Live and let live

That's what I thought

Like my friend who was worried about possible skin cancer on his forehead. His GP told him to stop worrying and said it was just a cyst.

You know where this is going?

He was dead a year later leaving his wife and 4 year old daughter behind. The patronising attitude of UK doctors is dangerous and unfortunately often deadly.

That was a pretty nasty thing to say. For all you know she may want to be a parent but hasn't been able to for whatever reason. I totally see where she is coming from, when you are dealing with trauma on a day to day you do, to a point need to dull yourself down to it or you wouldn't be able to function. It doesn't mean you can't listen to someone advocating for their child. It just means you don't get caught up in the fear and emotions that parents will naturally feel. There's a line between caring and having poor professional boundaries. You need a doctor who can do both.

It sounds like a very stressful situation and I don't think either of you have come off well but no I absolutely wouldn't be following this up with her. I think you were a bit out of line with what you said already though I also think it makes sense given what your family has been through that it's struck a raw nerve. I think the urge to follow it up is more about you than her.

Honestly I think you were very harsh and also rude. She was trying to explain that she stays calm. Also doctors have to weigh facts. My child has some disabilities. I went to doctor and explained what was happening and I was a bit upset. He said lets weigh it all on the balance of facts. I honestly had just got a bit off topic.lol I appreciated his balanced response and kindness in dealing with me. I have also been in an emergency situation with a doctor and had misdiagnosised another of my children only a week before. I told him in a very frantic way that he was completely wrong and that he didn't know what he was talking about. He calmly said Im sorry I was wrong last week but Im right today. I sat there in shock. My child if I had left it another hour would have died. I was always thankful to that doctor. They are human that taught me. He genuinely cared for my child. He did everything he could to save her and he did. My advice is give grace and don't lecture her. Life will do that for her.

What a twatish thing to say to another woman.

Bit of an arsehole comment.
If she is saying " when a child is screaming, covered in blood and we know what the cause is, I can ignore that and focus on the task in hand".

People are either empathetic and can understand another person's or child's point of view or they aren't. Plenty of parents don't really 'get' their children and plenty of non parents do.

I went through infertility and, as a teacher, still remember a member of staff saying no one could really understand children if they weren't a parent, which I found hurtful at the time. That's nonsense. When I did have children, it wasn't my understanding of children that changed but my view of schools, as a parent, certainly shifted a little.

Sorry, am I the only one wondering what the fuck a 4 year old was doing on a bike with no adult supervision? Or was the OP supposed to be supervising him?

That aside, I think the doctor's remark may have been badly phrased but it's pretty obvious what she meant, and you were BVU to say what you said.

Yabvu. No good doctor is going collapse in hysteria when confronted with a patient who needs attention. They will be calm and do the job they trained for

That’s very interesting

Absolutely, it’s very individual.

I agree

I think you were unnecessarily rude. I’m sure you were trying to look out for the child and their mum.

but from what you’ve written, it comes across as you rescuing the child after their accident and providing better care than a qualified doctor. And then you telling the doctor that they weren’t fully up to the job.

I think it's fairly obvious what the doctor meant and that your comment was unnecessary.

My child had cancer too and I know exactly what you mean but they also stayed professional and calm which is absolutely vital, especially if a parent is struggling to stay calm.

Sounds like you were both in the wrong to be honest. Your comment was a bit out of order but I can see why you were annoyed.
Yes, remaining calm under pressure and not panicking in unpleasant situation is a key quality of a good doctor, but you just do it, there's no need to announce it to the world. It is also perfectly possible to calmly deal with distressed patients, relatives and bystanders without being dismissive of them.
If she's newly qualified she will in fact not have much experience at all and it's possible that she was nervous and trying rather clumsily to appear confident -and maybe in fact to reassure herself. I have decades of experience in Intensive Care Medicine and really am used to dealing with horrific injuries and very distressed people but it is still quite stressful as a hospital doctor to be asked to deal with something in the community when you have no equipment etc and people have high expectations of you because you're a doctor. Certainly as a recent graduate I would have not felt particularly well equipped to deal with an injured child alone. I'd like to think I'd have been polite though!
She shouldn't have spoken to you like that, and if I heard any of my staff say something like that we'd definitely be having a conversation about it after the event, but giving her the benefit of the doubt, it may actually have been anxiety and and inexperience speaking. It's not acceptable though. Hopefully she'll improve her communication skills with time.
Incidentally, aside from my work experience I'm a cycling coach and race organiser. A damaged helmet after a fall, even in the absence of any visible injury is enough to trigger the concussion protocol and pull a rider out of the event, so it is very reasonable to be concerned about a child with a badly damaged helmet. I hope the youngster is ok.

Oh ok so because she hasn’t had children her degree in medicine is utter bollocks. Ooopz guess I need fo
asl for my degree to be discounted

The doctor said something clearly unsympathetic and patronising and got a strong reply. If you’d said it out of context YWBU but in that context I think it was an appropriate thing to say. She’s lucky the mum didn’t hear….