To report colleague who offered to buy my underwear

[Colleagueissue26]

NC for obvious reasons!

Work night out the weekend before last. There was a drunken/joking conversation between several of us about onlyfans. Consensus that no one would go the full way on there but selling clothing would be an acceptable way to make money. All lighthearted discussion of course.

One of the (male) colleagues involved in the discussion was on holiday last week.

At the weekend, I received a late night DM on social media from him along the lines of ‘if you were being serious about selling your underwear, I don’t mind paying. Our secret’

I ignored it. The next morning, he messaged to apologise and said his friend stole his phone and sent it as a dare.

I don’t believe him for a second.

Would you report to HR? He is younger, early 20’s.

But its perfectly appropriate for a senior colleague to invite comment by declaring what they might do on a sex site?
Is that what you are saying? Because some might say it was an invitation.

Seriously an older and more senior colleague should know better, even if its out of working hours

So if they'd been discussing using drugs and she said she'd never be a dealer but that she might sell to her friends, and he later texted to say she was serious, he'd buy from her, you'd deny the text had anything to do with the conversation?

People need to accept responsibility for their actions. It didn't occur in a vacuum. Of course talking about it is highly relevant to what happened.

And why did he think it was appropriate? It didn’t come from nowhere. It came from the inappropriate conversation the previous week.

There is clearly an inappropriate culture within this team or organisation.

If I was presented with this complaint everyone involved would be receiving a verbal warning and be reminded of our Company’s values and conduct policies.

Because he made a decision to think it was ok to be inappropriate

He wasn’t led there he is an adult who makes decisions

i agree these type of conversations are really to be avoided with work colleagues

You lost any respect I might have had for you when you suggested you would report your colleague without giving the back story.

Good to know you and your fellow "senior colleagues" will be collaborating to corroborate your lies about this young man and your part in what preceded this. I am amazed you can think and write this sort of thing and feel no shame.

So our replies gave you the support to tell HR? Would that be the 79% of us who think you're being unreasonable?

You say "None of the senior colleagues present will collaborate any attempt made to twist a story."

Denying the Only Fans group discussion isn't twisting, it's group deception aimed at getting him fired. Or making money from it. It's absolutely vile, yet you think you deserve respect?

You're all misleading/deceitful liars in collusion. Your collective parents must be so proud.

And how would the jr explain propositioning OP a week after the night out? 🙄

The OP did not encourage the text from the 22 year old. FGS, he sent it a week later. The conversation happened, was not solely confined to OP and the 22 year old and was long dead.
How do you explain the 22 year old not privately messaging everyone else in the group (assuming he didn't)?

How do you explain the private message as opposed to a group chat?
How does saying, "I'd sell my underwear" transform into "Text me text week to confirm?"

FGS get off the misogynistic high horse. Your post is utterly delusional.

Are you kidding me? In what world is this acceptable?

I'm shocked to find so many apologists for sexual harassment on mumsnet of all places.

It was inappropriate for him to send you that message, but it was equally inappropriate for you, a senior member of staff, to take part in a conversation about only fans. If you insist on your male colleague taking responsibility for his actions, you need to be prepared to take responsibility for yours…and I note you tried to minimise it by saying it was drunken/joking. Doesn’t matter, it was incredibly unprofessional of you to have that conversation with junior staff (well, any colleagues really). I don’t think you should report him, I think you should talk to him about how inappropriate his message was, acknowledge that discussing sex related topics in work settings is inappropriate, apologise for that, and move on.

I work in HR, not in the UK but similar employment jurisdiction. Senior role, and have specialised in employment relations for 15+ years. I will tell you that the whole story is very likely to come out. Your suggestion that you will “frame it” a certain way raises red flags for me. The facts will come out, and they won’t supporting your “framing”.

It was inappropriate of him to text you. No question. But you are not the innocent here. You participated in an inappropriate conversation with work colleagues. You opened the door. He should not have walked through that doorway, but you also should not have had that conversation.

He’d get a warning from me. But you’d also be cautioned, especially if your “framing” came out. If you were a senior member of staff, I’d be disappointed in your judgement. And that poor judgment stems from your decision to omit facts and attempt to have your colleagues support your version of the story.

You won’t come out smelling like roses.

So you agree with the OP that she should omit the information about the drunken discussion about selling used underwear on Only Fans?

Do you also agree that OP is justified in denying that this discussion ever took place and asking her colleagues to back her up (i.e. to lie to HR), if the junior member of staff raises this himself, which he obviously will? Surely, blatantly lying during an HR investigation is gross misconduct?

If, as you obviously believe, that drunken conversation wasn't any sort of mitigation for what her junior colleague did later, why is it wrong for HR to have all the facts and to make a decision based on those facts?

I’m not saying it was acceptable but I can see how he felt it might be welcomed and he sent a polite message testing the water. Still doesn’t change the fact as the senior colleague the OP,sexually harassed him first.

In what world is a senior member of staff engaging in drunken discussions of selling her used underwear on Only Fans with a male staff member who is her junior in both seniority and age at all acceptable?

He has sent a foolish text, no doubt while also a bit drunk, and apologised for it.

OP writes: "I am a senior colleague, and deserve respect."

She did not behave like a senior colleague, and she did not behave in a way that deserves respect, and now she is quite fine with lying to HR, and getting her posse to lie for her, and throwing this young man to the dogs. That is not the behaviour of someone senior in age or experience in the workplace - it is callous and dishonourable - and it is not at all acceptable.

Aa someone who has had some pretty mad lads nights out in their early 20s. Err no. No. You just wouldn't mention something like that to your mates

The friend doesn't know my senior colleagues unless I've been wittering on about her (which makes it even more creepy)

There's no way in todays world does the friend text her because of the risk of losing his job...in my day perhaps because you could walk into another job

How does the friend unlock the phone

I just don't get why so many women think this is ok

You're being contrary now. Of course it's relevant. The conversation was a precursor to his action.

Imagine if someone robs a bank and it comes out that a week earlier he was in the pub with friends discussing the best way to disarm a security guard. According to your logic, that conversation would be inadmissible in court because it had zero bearing on what happened, when of course it did!

It's the same scenario.

I am not excusing his text but as a lawyer I can confirm that the OP lying about the circumstances deliberately in order to portray the text as being out of the blue is potentially as serious as the text itself. Arguably more so since she has not only done what he has done i.e inappropriately discussed the selling of her underwear to make extra cash but she has also lied about the circumstances in order to deliberately mislead the company and create a grievance situation. Then she has attempted to persuade colleagues who are witnesses to collude with her and lie to the employer. In addition she is more senior and so this behaviour is potentially even worse since she is in a position of authority. Plus there is no way that the wording of that text, which specifically refers to the conversation had with the OP about selling her underwear, supports the OP's concocted story in any way. It literally starts by saying "if you were serious about selling your underwear".

It's a disciplinary situation for the OP. It potentially could have been sexual harassment even just by her talking about the selling of her used underwear. It potentially satisfies the definition of sexual harassment which is "unwanted verbal non verbal or physical behaviour of a sexual nature which has the purpose or effect of violating the recipient's dignity or creating an intimidating hostile degrading humiliating or offensive environment for the recipient".

If the colleague had said nothing but then presented a grievance the next morning the OP would likely have been suspended pending investigation.

For someone who is supposedly a lawyer, you certainly have had a free hand with the facts and assumed a lot.

Did they not teach you that you need evidence on your law course?

He’s not a young lad, he’s a grown man old enough to tell OP to keep it as ‘our secret’.

If he’s that young, he shouldn’t be in a workplace with adults.

Your employer doesn't need evidence.

They just need 'reasonable belief'.

I am a lawyer and my "law course" (ie an undergraduate degree, two years at law school and two years training contract before practising employment law for over 25 years - for many of those years as head of employment at a very large law firm) did indeed teach me that evidence is required. In employment law we need a "reasonably belief". Both parties have the text on their phones and the colleagues would be questioned and despite what the OP thinks, are likely to tell the truth since to lie to your employer in a disciplinary investigation is in itself a potential disciplinary matter.

My post is based on what the OP has described in her own thread. Nothing is "made up".

When you edit a post your previous versions can all be seen.

Just edited another post, someone sue me (!)

As a lawyer you should also know that correcting a post isn’t a crime (!) Have you never edited a post?

So the things you have presented incorrectly.

• “she has also lied about the circumstances in order to deliberately mislead the company and create a grievance situation.”
• ”Then she has attempted to persuade colleagues who are witnesses to collude with her and lie to the employer.”

Neither of these are facts.

Edit: oops, just edited again.

They are both things the OP said she was intending to do.

I outlined the consequences of her actions.