To think almost every woman in the world has suffered some form of sexual harassment by age 30?

[Fearlesssloth]

I was having a conversation with a friend the other day. She claims never to have experienced any kind of sexual harassment at all. She’s 37, grew up in the UK, has lived a normal life. I just don’t believe her. Never been groped, never had a sexual remark made to or about her, never felt threatened by a man trying to chat her up, not even a wolf whistle apparently! In her words, “it must be because I’m so ugly”! Still, I find it hard to believe any woman could get to 37 and escape any kind of sexual harassment. So I’m wondering, AIBU? Has anyone on here never experienced any kind of sexual harassment? I’m a similar age to my friend, and I’m lucky in that I haven’t experienced anything really serious, but all the smaller things do add up and give me the rage at men and their sense of entitlement. When I was about 13 and in my school uniform, a man started touching himself on the seat on the train next to me, another man showed me his erection through his trousers on another train, lots of wolf whistles and sexual comments shouted at me while in school uniform (which is just so gross 🤮 ) this was early 2000s. Anyone know if this stuff still happens a lot to school girls? When I was 16 a man I was giving directions to on the street randomly groped my boob. Worst part about it though was that I instinctively slapped him (which got rid of him sharpish) and my friends acted like I was the unreasonable one, ‘why was I acting crazy’, I ‘need to chill out’ etc. which reinforced the idea that women just have to put up with this stuff. Other times I’ve been cornered by men, pinned to the wall, forcibly kissed, had my bum grabbed SO many times, I caught a man filming me once while I was getting changed in what I thought was a private area. What women have to put up with gives me the absolute rage. I just hope that it’s at least better now than it used to be. I wouldn’t really know cos I’m married and rarely in the drunken kind of situations anymore that a lot of these situations occurred in. I haven’t been wolf-whistled at or harassed in the street for a really long time, but that may be because I’m late 30s and it’s all the school girls that are having to put up with it…So tell me about all your experiences of sexual harassment over the years. And if you are that rare person, like my friend whose never been harassed, tell me why you think that is

And they wonder why we don’t want men in our single sex spaces 🙈

I would suggest most women have but there's always going to be an exception to the rule.
Many minor and some more serious incidents over my 50 years of life. My mum however suffered major trauma of a sexual nature which I only learnt about as an adult but now I realize my whole childhood was shaped by her untreated PTSD and she never managed to heal 😢.
Hope everyone who needs it is finding a way to peace ❤️
Going to get my 14 year old DD to read this thread. She just beginning to go out a little on her own and with friends. It honestly terrifies me.

Was about 12 the first time it happened to me, a man stood in his window wanking. Got goosed at school and bra strap twanging. stalked by somebody I worked with . Got hit on by one of my very recent exes best friends who had a girlfriend. Got hit on by my sisters new boyfriend the first time I met him. Got hit on by other sisters long term boyfriend. XH grabbed my wrists and tried to drag me upstairs so we could have sex ‘for old times sake’ All this between the ages of 8 and 45 and not counting catcalling and aggression and groping on nights out.

I don’t see being chatted up as sexual harassment (and I bloody miss it).

Agree with your general point though. Mild harassment is certainly part and parcel of being a woman sadly, and serious harassment not that uncommon either.

I didn't really have much in the way of that growing up-I can't count ages 25-30 as I was not socialising a lot by that point. But being a teen and in my early 20s when I did go out? No I can't really remember anything.

I agree with your friend that being ugly and having a RBF helps. That's why coming on MN was SO eye-opening as to what other women have to deal with.

I am sorry. I perhaps haven't expressed myself well.

I was trying to answer the question in the OP: 'And if you are that rare person, like my friend whose never been harassed, tell me why you think that is'

I was speculating why I haven't been harassed, or indeed attracted male attention in any form. I can only guess that I have either been in places where men are unlikely to harass women, or there is something about my aura that repels them. Maybe it is neither of those things, but I don't know what it is, then.

I am really sorry you have had so many awful experiences. I don't have a high opinion of men in general. I have a lot of female friends, many of whom have been attacked, raped, and abused- I am very wary of men.

My mother insists she has never been sexually harrased let alone assaulted. But the truth is, over the years she has let slip incidents that tell another story - two of which are genuinely frightening.
Yet somehow she doesn't see it. She really doesn't.
Some women are just groomed and socialised from childhood to accept this shit and not see it for what it is. So when a woman tells me it's never happened to her, I'm sceptical at the very least, but I learned long ago there's nothing to be gained by trying to convince them they might be wrong.

I'm so sorry. 💐

YANBU. I had a man wave his penis at me when I was walking home from primary school aged about 8. I had constant lewd remarks from men in cars when walking home from secondary school.

Oh god we had a creepy fucking music teacher who used to serenade all the girls then he tried to chat me up in a club a couple of years later and was so drunk he was sick on himself … that’s probably the weirdest.

What has alway really freaked me out and more so since I’ve had daughters is the amount of men who knew me as a child and hit on me as an adult. Well, actually not an adult, over the age of consent.

Definitely got touched up on the subway a few times, and that’s horrible but it doesn’t bother me in the same way.

I find it very difficult to believe as every woman I know has experienced a lot of it.

I remember comments and getting men beeping their car horns at me from about aged 12/13. Then too many incidents to count as I got older, from being followed, taxi drivers being pervy, being sexually harassed at work that I had to report and resulted in men being disciplined, being inappropriately touched, a man trying to force me to kiss him, sexual comments from workmen and men on public transport. I even had an incident of a doctor being inappropriate.

I’m in my 40s now and I run a lot. At least a couple of times a month a man will comment on my body or make some innuendo. A couple of years ago a man touched my bum when I was running. I try to run with my partner or son as they I never get bothered if they’re with me.

My daughter is 17 and the way men have looked at her for the past few years is disgusting. Men from 35 to 80. Pervy bastards.

I would say that you are unlikely to have reached adulthood without at least one experience of sexual harrassment.

It's just the water we swim in. A lot of women don't notice it because of that.

Groped at 16 by an old man in my Saturday job and constantly asked out by him. Flashed a couple of times and the usual wolf whistles. All this in the 80s and 90s.

There’s lots of other responses you can have to sexual harassment other than feeling threatened or intimidated. I’ve always been very confident, never taken any shit, even as a teenager. Many of the times it’s happened to me I haven’t felt threatened, instead I’ve just felt pure rage. There was a man dressed up as a dolphin in a waterpark who grabbed me once when I was sitting on the side of the pool, pulled me into the pool, and whispered in my ear “I want sex with you”. I wriggled free, climbed out of the pool and kicked him right in his stupid spongey dolphin face! The dolphin head fell off and he ended up looking like a total idiot! I’ve kicked men in the balls for trying to grope me in clubs, slapped the man who put his hand on my breast. I know this could escalate things in certain situations but many of my reactions have been instinctive, it’s how I’ve always protected myself, so I couldn’t react any other way if I tried. Luckily it’s never made any of them worse. Most of the time they look shocked and back off (then say something about how I can’t take a joke 🙄). So most of the time I haven’t actually felt intimidated, just very angry. It’s still harassment.

I grew up in the 80’s/90’s and was sexually harassed/assaulted regularly on nights out and harassed walking through town in the day. It was normal.

Neither of my DDs (both in their twenties) have had any thing like that. They put it down to it being a different time and while they did go out a bit at uni it was usually in mixed sex groups and they stopped going out drinking in their early twenties . Whereas me and my friends (girls) went out 2 or 3 nights a week from 15 years old for around 10 years.

Sadly, I think you’re YANBU to specify the age of 30. I think it’s by 20 or maybe even earlier.

I do know a few women who claim the same. Without exception they’ve all had very sheltered rural upbringings and never really been anywhere or lived in cities etc. Think the type who still call their parents mummy and daddy when they’re 48. If all you know is going to an all girls boarding school
and then looking after your horses for the rest of your life on the family estate it’s possible I suppose.

I don't mind wolf whistles and nice compliments. I don't like being stalked, stared at in a rapey way or a way designed to make me embarrassed, having a man expose an erection to me at work (in a public place), being looked at like a piece of meat by male co workers (I'm talking staring at my V if I'm wearing jeans, staring openly at my tits etc), men following me, attempted sexual assaults, being flashed (in school uniform) or waking up having stayed over a friends place to a man I didn't like and barely knew next to me (STARING at me) (this happened three times, three different men). Yeah I don't like that. And no I don't know a SINGLE woman this hasn't happened to. It has nothing to do with being pretty. I think your friend just got super super lucky.

I think you see even on this thread quite a lot of women who say they haven't had it or claim that stuff I'd call harassment isn't harassment because they weren't bothered by it.

If someone genuinely hasn't experienced it or has been oblivious then that's absolutely fine and in a way, quite heartening. But if it's because the person is minimising it, that's where a feel a little frustrated.

It's been quite a long journey to get police and CPS to treat indecent exposure (flashing) as the sexual crime it is. People later convicted of rape often start off with lower level crimes like this. So to minimise it just because you don't think it was targeted to you or you weren't bothered, especially if you don't report it, isn't brave, it's putting other women at risk.

I think as well we have a journey to go on with misogynistic jokes and "banter". Often it's the thin end of the wedge for those who are later found to have committed crimes against women. Look at Trump (who a judge deemed has committed sexual assault, whatever he says) saying he "grabs them by the pussy" then discounting it as "locker room talk". Look at Wayne Couzens who "joked" with colleagues about sexual assault and rape. Apparently the phrase they liked was a "struggle snuggle". 🤮

So while you might not be offended by the guy who openly looks at your tits in the workplace, cracks misogynistic jokes or even flashes you, this kind of thing is part of a culture where women are seen by some men as prey or "fair game". It's about time all of us challenge that and I include men who do so the least IME.

I really don’t think you can say it’s got nothing to do with being pretty. It’s not everything, but it’s a huge contributing factor. I’d say the majority of low-level idiots like the cat-callers, wolf-whistlers etc do it because they see an attractive women. The more serious minority like the flashers, men who rub their erections against women etc, do it as some sort of power trip/fetish/thrill and the attractiveness of the woman is irrelevant. The majority of low-level stuff is a direct result of being good-looking IME though

I think your friend in unusual. I've had what I think is 'standard' levels:
Cat calling (esp when im school uniform, gross)
Comments on the street (even when pushing a pram, yuck)
Groped several times (gigs, public transport)
Would have been assaulted in a club but thank god my friend came by and stopped it.

None of this has made me a fearful person, I think it was normalised in my youth. Im glad that there is less tolerance of this now. We were told thats just the way it is... but now quite rightly, it is being challenged.

There are no 'places where men are unlikely to harass women'. Except places where there are no men.

Claiming you've escaped because of the places you've been or not been and the way you act implies that other women have been less guarded, less careful.

You've been lucky, and I'm glad for you. But it is luck, and only luck.

I walk like the ground has mortally offended me. I have a naturally unapproachable face to the extent that even my mother tells me to smile. I mostly wear jeans and a jacket (in a few of the examples below I was in standard prfoessional office wear, or other clothes that will be obvious from the context).

Places I have been harassed, flashed or assaulted (I'm excluding 'mild' stuff like catcalling or we'd be here all day) include:

• primary school.classroom
• secondary school classrooms and corridors.
• walking to and from school
• busy city streets in broad daylight
• a main road in a snowstorm, dressed for the weather
• trains in the middle of the day
• railway stations - both in daytime and after dark
• an open-plan office
• the staircase of an office building
• a ballroom dance class
• a conference hall (with conference in progress)
• the beach
• and yes, a bar - while I was sitting with friends and wearing normal daytime.clothes

Places I have not been assaulted:

• walking home through deserted streets and past emptying clubs at 3am
• in clubs, despite wearing little more than underwear in some of them.

Do I conclude women are unlikely to be assaulted in clubs, if they dance and smile a lot and wear very little, or that they're safe if they only go out alone between 3am and 6am? No. That would be ridiculous.I conclude I was lucky.

Quote function failed. The 'places' quote was from @Greenfinch7's post.

I'm not attractive, don't wear makeup, jeans/t-shirts/walking boots type.

Teenage

• on holiday age 13 there was a waiter who'd pinch all the teenage girls bums and we were all too embarrassed to tell our parents
• First job age 16 there was a man who visited for work every 6 weeks - 'befriended' me, super nice, but would sexually joke and make comments while touching my legs. I really liked him, now see it as him grooming me.
• Age 18 on a bus man 'reading a newspaper' next to me, kept 'accidentally' dropping the paper down to touch up my thigh/groin.

And it carried on all my life with incidents of being flashed at, groped, followed, inappropriate comments. Too depressing to list them all but to conclude:

In my 50s
Walking across a car park two laughing men shouted 'piss flaps' at me and swerved their car straight at me, forcing me to jump aside.

Went to a free trial day at a local gym) spa. A man got in the large jacuzzi with me and kept rubbing my legs with his feet. At first I thought it was accidental so moved away. He followed me the whole way round the jacuzzi, repeatedly doing it. I threatened to punch him if he did it again, got out, complained at reception, they didn't give a shit. Wouldn't even take a description of him. Implied I was inventing it as that sort of thing didn't happen there.

Now I'm 60 I hope it stops but if not, I'm going to punch first and ask questions later. Fuck this shit.