To think almost every woman in the world has suffered some form of sexual harassment by age 30?

[Fearlesssloth]

I was having a conversation with a friend the other day. She claims never to have experienced any kind of sexual harassment at all. She’s 37, grew up in the UK, has lived a normal life. I just don’t believe her. Never been groped, never had a sexual remark made to or about her, never felt threatened by a man trying to chat her up, not even a wolf whistle apparently! In her words, “it must be because I’m so ugly”! Still, I find it hard to believe any woman could get to 37 and escape any kind of sexual harassment. So I’m wondering, AIBU? Has anyone on here never experienced any kind of sexual harassment? I’m a similar age to my friend, and I’m lucky in that I haven’t experienced anything really serious, but all the smaller things do add up and give me the rage at men and their sense of entitlement. When I was about 13 and in my school uniform, a man started touching himself on the seat on the train next to me, another man showed me his erection through his trousers on another train, lots of wolf whistles and sexual comments shouted at me while in school uniform (which is just so gross 🤮 ) this was early 2000s. Anyone know if this stuff still happens a lot to school girls? When I was 16 a man I was giving directions to on the street randomly groped my boob. Worst part about it though was that I instinctively slapped him (which got rid of him sharpish) and my friends acted like I was the unreasonable one, ‘why was I acting crazy’, I ‘need to chill out’ etc. which reinforced the idea that women just have to put up with this stuff. Other times I’ve been cornered by men, pinned to the wall, forcibly kissed, had my bum grabbed SO many times, I caught a man filming me once while I was getting changed in what I thought was a private area. What women have to put up with gives me the absolute rage. I just hope that it’s at least better now than it used to be. I wouldn’t really know cos I’m married and rarely in the drunken kind of situations anymore that a lot of these situations occurred in. I haven’t been wolf-whistled at or harassed in the street for a really long time, but that may be because I’m late 30s and it’s all the school girls that are having to put up with it…So tell me about all your experiences of sexual harassment over the years. And if you are that rare person, like my friend whose never been harassed, tell me why you think that is

Now in my mid sixties and when in my teens I endured several gropings and a few flashers too. I say endured because it never occurred to me to report anyone. Being told by more than one work colleague what they'd like to do to me just made me blush because I wasn't the confident and assertive woman I eventually became. A few years later I stupidly accepted a lift home late at night after the public transport had stopped and to save taxi fare I got into the front passenger seat next to a man I'd seen in the bar that evening. My friend lived in the opposite direction to my home so we parted ways.
Now for the horrible part. We chatted on the journey and he seemed okay. I directed him to my road and he parked in a little area just along from my home. I knew at that point he probably wanted a kiss and maybe a grope in return for the lift. I didn't want any of that but he leaned over and I let him kiss me thinking get it over with then say goodnight. Quick as a flash he tipped my seat back and climbed on top of me. He raped me. I was repulsed but didn't struggle because something told me if I'd tried to fight him off I may have come to much greater harm.
This was several decades ago and today is the first time I've shared. I've never forgotten his smell.

Whistles. Cat-calls. Early 20s a bloke walking towards me in a S London shopping centre grabbed my crutch. Drunk in a pub at 18 being sick in the sink in the ladies a bloke I’d been talking to came in to see if I was ok and put his hand in my knickers. Aged 20 my driving instructor told me if I was ever going to a fancy dress he could see me dressed as a schoolgirl. Whilst holding my baby son the bloke who’d come to fix my boiler pretended to be interested in the baby and made sure his hand went between the baby and my body. Vile. Fuck off. I’m 64 now. On the odd occasion I get a double take from a white van man, usually when I’m driving.

Iim 52 ime ,things like wolf whistleing and even somone pinching your bum in a night club were often laughed off 20/30years ago.
I have expereince one more serious case of sexual harrassment /assault
A work collegue followed me into the toilets on a work night out and put his hand up my skirt ,i mansged to get away fortunatley.

It depends on your definition. I've had several experiences that other people would classify as harassment or even assault but I definitely do not. The me too nonsense has broadened the whole definition to ridiculous lengths to the point that a man blowing his nose in the wrong direction has some bonkers women shouting harassment or assault.

It does a huge disservice to people who have genuinely been harassed or assaulted.

It's a woman's world these days. Guys can't do or say anything without some crazy woman trying to vilify them. Women should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

Careful, your internalised misogyny is showing.

She almost said she hadn’t experienced it like it was normal to not have experienced it and I was exaggerating by saying it used to happen (and still does to many young women) all the time. She was talking about planning to travel to India alone and I said that might not be the best idea as she’d get constant harassment from men, which I know is true because I’ve been to India with female friends and the harassment was on another level. She looked at me like I was crazy. And I said something like, you can’t tell me you’ve never been harassed by a man in this country, not even had sexual remarks shouted at you or wolf whistled at?! And she said never, almost as if I was crazy for suggesting it! Tbf, and I don’t know how to say this without sounding like a right dick, but (as she said herself) she is very unattractive. Not plain or average, but really very physically unattractive. Still though, while that might make these incidents less frequent, I doubt it’d make her completely immune from them. And in India I don’t think it’d make the slightest bit of difference. Just being female and white is enough

Catcalling and comments started when I was 11 and in school uniform.
Only stopped when I got to early 40s.

I remember being 15, standing at the bus stop in my school uniform and having multiple men yelling out of their vans at me. Being 16 on a train in an empty carriage and looking over at a man and he was masturbating in my direction. Being 17 and walking the long way round just to avoid a building site because I couldn’t walk past without the workmen leering at me.

I had hoped things had got better, but I took my son’s girlfriend (17) to a gig a few weeks ago, just her and I, and men would continuously approach us and wouldn’t leave us alone even after I explained that I was married and she was 17! She said she’s scared to walk through town (Manchester city centre) by herself because men are always trying to talk to her and won’t take no for an answer. She got groped in a supermarket last year, by a man claiming to try and get to the shelf behind her, but did so by grabbing her hips and trying to push himself against her. Gross.

When I was 17 I was mouthy so I’d have screamed, but she’s so shy that she just freezes and doesn’t know how to react. It makes me worry for her, and her parents are fine with her walking home alone in the dark even though it’s clearly dangerous, so I’ve added my Uber account onto her phone and made her promise that she’ll always get a taxi or call us if she’s worried about anything.

Far too many incidences to count but I was born in the 60s when it was a free for all. I honestly thought it had been clamped down on now. You can lose your job if you make inappropriate remarks today. Shocking that men still do this.

I see my age range are commenting quite a bit, I’m almost 60. I did see being wolf whistled at as sexual harassment even way back then but it was more accepted.I don’t think stuff like wolf whistling is quite as prevalent but it still exists. It’s just called out more now and harassment like upskirting has taken its place, they are just sneakier.

From my first year at secondary school to today,I've had unwanted harassment

A classmate would touch/nip me between my legs when he saw me

Bra twanging

Sexual comments

Teachers did fuck all and those boys have grown up to be men doing the same shit to women (or worse,being fathers of dds)

I work in retail

Only yesterday I had some bloke at work (in front of his girlfriend) ask for my number as 'id love to take you out and then fuck you'

The week before I had some bloke lear down my top and tell his very young grandson that 'i love it when women do things for you' (that was the way he said it-it was definitelysaid with sexual undertones but he claimed it was 'innocently meant')

I've been touched up 11 times in 10 years at work alone

One man coming up behind me and grinding his hard cock into my back,while I was bent over a bin (I was changing the bag)

I've had teenagers come up to me and one tried to shove his hand down my trousers and up my top (again at work)

Went into the ladies customer toilet's and some bloke (who was hanging around in there) tried to grab me

Even though it was all on cctv,the police did nothing

A family friend (who id known since I was a baby) tell me (aged 14/15) that 'i love the fact I can see your pubes and nips through that dress' (my mother laughed)

Some bloke tried to chat me up at a bus stop and got arsey when I moved away (thankfully the bus came)

On trains I've had men try and touch me between my legs (with my dp stood next to me)

Catcalled by men in vans/cars as I've just been walking down the street

As teenager,just getting in a taxi to get home safely was met with unwanted comments/'accidentally' touching my knee (more than once)

Men not taking 'no' for an answer when I used to go out with the girls on nights out

Fuck all happened when I reported it

That's the problem-you can get the courage to report them and nothing happens-in a lot of my cases its on cctv but the police refuse to even look at it let alone 'have a word' so they do what they do and nobody pulls them up on it,so they think its ok to carry on but if the woman has a go at them,its the woman who's 'hysterical'

The same woman who was just minding her own business before he started pestering her

I'm pretty normal looking. Nothing special and never have been.

When I was 15 I was groped in a swimming pool (several times) by a kid a similar age. I slapped (who I thought it was) but apparently I'd got the wrong guy. Still, it stopped at least.

I was followed in a way I found sinister when I was 19 and 22 by two guys (in the UK). Just got somewhere with lots of people. Similar experiences to you in India as well. Guys followed, making comments.

But most devastatingly, I was raped at 21 (a stranger who grabbed me outside), 24 (by a boyfriend at the time when I was asleep) and 35 (by a colleague when I was blind drunk and possibly drugged).

At 34 I was accidentally copied in on an email by a (then) boss who was suggesting I was only unhappy with some of their (unethical) processes because I was sexually frustrated and one of them should offer to "sort me out".

Then of course the usual stuff. The comments etc. Even had some random guy come up and shout in my face aggressively in London once. I have no doubt he wouldn't have done it if I was a man.

It's hard for me as a result to think that it's possible someone hasn't experienced anything at least on the milder end. I'd imagine that they have but simply haven't noticed. Most friends I know have been groped on a night out or seen someone expose themselves or at least had a sexual experience where they felt uncomfortable enough to have been felt coerced into it where they perhaps see it as more of a grey area than I do (I think that kind of stuff is never excusable. I've never tried to coerce someone into sex and never would.)

I welcome the anonymity of being older. It's like one day I was suddenly invisible to most men and it was a glorious relief.

Oh and on the not noticing stuff?

I had something recently where a guy at work gave me a hug. I thought nothing of it, I'm a hugger as a rule. It was only when another guy came up to me and asked if I was ok that I realised that it wasn't appropriate.

I think sometimes, if you're a pleasant and open person, that some men take advantage of that and see how far they can push. It made me sad though that despite all of my history I'd been so trusting again.

I was groped at a work event. The man did not return to work on Monday. It was taken seriously but it still happened. My nearing retirement boss in another job made comments about my bottom whilst up a ladder.

That's in addition to cat calling, wolf whistling, night club/pub groping of which I've lost count.

I think I went invisible during Covid and I absolutely love it. Only one cat called since from a white van man. When I mentioned it on a local Facebook group I got laughing emojis from men. And that is the problem because those men will be sexually harassing my DDs.

I don’t think you can deny her own experience. I agree most women have experienced some form of harassment but “most” is not “all”.

Although of course some women probably feel that way as they don’t view what they experienced as “harassment”.

I never have, similar age to you. Don’t know why, I’m not hugely ugly but I’m not particularly attractive either.

When I was 14 (late 80’s) and standing at a bus stop a man tried to get me to go with him as he said “he had something special to show me.” My DM wasn’t remotely interested when I told her.

Aside from the above I have never experienced any other sexual harassment. I grew up in another country and came to the UK in my late 20’s and have been here ever since and not experienced this in either country. I do think as I’ve got older that I have a ‘don’t f@!k with me’ face,’ plus being overweight has always given me a cloak of invisibility in many aspects of my life.

I posted on a similar thread a few years ago and someone told me I had low standards and that I was a liar - I am neither, and fellow women not believing that everyone can have different experiences, irrespective of what that is, is pretty abhorrent. If you want to be believed then you have to be prepared to listen to others and respect what they say their experiences are.

No one here is calling cat calling and minor incidents like that assault and it doesn’t devalue the experiences of genuine victims. It’s about women finally speaking up and saying we’ve had enough of men having the upper hand and being able to get away with inappropriate behaviour that makes us feel uncomfortable. If we continued to let the minor stuff go, ‘oh it was only a pat on the bum’, ‘it was just a comment from a stranger, he didn’t actually DO anything, it’s just banter, don’t be so sensitive, where’s your sense of humour?’ Blah, blah, that creates a system where men feel they have permission to treat women this way, as apparently we don’t mind. This means they will continue to push the boundaries. ‘She didn’t mind that pat on the bum, so next time I’ll up it to brushing my cock against her…did that and oh, nothing was said about that either, she must like it, next time I’ll actually get my cock out cos she’s clearly enjoying all this, she probably wants to touch it.’ Don’t you see? It’s about changing the whole attitude of the entitlement men feel towards women’s bodies, getting to the root of the problem and making it unacceptable from the very beginning, so it doesn’t escalate to men feeling like they can get away with whatever the fuck they want.

“Guys can’t say or do anything without some crazy woman trying to vilify them”
My bet is you’re a man. Calling a woman crazy for expressing discomfort about having her boundaries shit all over is pure ignorance and is exactly the kind of thing an entitled man says to gaslight women. Normal men who have been socialised in society know exactly what is appropriate and what is inappropriate behaviour. It should come naturally. Not being creepy isn’t hard. The ones who are being creepy are doing it intentionally and they know exactly what they’re doing. I’ve had plenty of crushes on men in the past and I’ve very easily managed to flirt with them or let them know I fancy them without being creepy or making them uncomfortable.

Mid-40s and I also find it hard to believe. Though perhaps, as PP have suggested, she's got a higher threshold for harassment.

DD14 has twice reported boys from the neighbouring boys school for verbal harassment on her way home from (her, girls) school. She has to walk past the boys school.

The first time, she arrived home absolutely incensed. I emailed the boys school. To their credit, I got an email back with half an hour and then the head rang me back the next day, said they'd identified the boys on the school's CCTV from DD's description, and would be having words. Coincidentally, they were also scheduled to have an assembly on respect a few days later. Head was great and took it very seriously.

I can't remember exactly what the event was, maybe the first week of autumn term, but she'd been wearing a hi-vis or something so new Y7s could identify her as someone who would help them if they got lost or had a problem or something. The comments were all about how the boys liked a girl in uniform and how they wanted the add her on Snapchat.

Based on the way the uniform works and what they were wearing, the boys were probably in the Y8/9/10 range. It's possible they thought they were being cheeky and charming, but there were four of them and she was on her own and she found it really intimidating. They followed her along the slip road from the schools up to the main road (takes a few minutes on foot) continuing their "banter".

The second time something similar happened, DD turned around, walked back to her school and reported it to the receptionist immediately.

Interesting the comments from women in their 60s about catcalling being just part of life. My mum always said "oh it's just normal" or "be flattered" but when you're walking home in school uniform and a van of blokes are yelling "show us your tits" is that flattering? Why wasn't she as angry as I was?

Loads of harassment - comments in the street, when out running, in the gym "want to squat over my face", with my baby in the buggy. Unwanted touching on nights out. Had men exposed themselves to me on two different occasions. Comments from older colleagues and managers. We've had builders in the workplace thinking it's ok to make comments about colleagues. I've helped young women with getting men to leave the alone, which usually leads to a barrage of abuse about being old or a lesbian like either of those things are terrible.

Has never happened to me. Not even the low level stuff like catcalling or whistling. Obviously, I know I'm an outlier though.

I think it's pretty off to say you don't believe her.

Tbh, for a while if asked I’d say ‘no, it never happened to me’. I had just minimised it all and almost deleted from my memory.
But, of course it did -
landlord forcing a kiss on my lips, being flashed on the tube, whistled at - things I’ve just accepted as so trivial to not even remember, especially as my friends had some really terrible stories in comparison.
May be, that’s the case with your friend - about time she redefines s harassment in her head.