To think almost every woman in the world has suffered some form of sexual harassment by age 30?

[Fearlesssloth]

I was having a conversation with a friend the other day. She claims never to have experienced any kind of sexual harassment at all. She’s 37, grew up in the UK, has lived a normal life. I just don’t believe her. Never been groped, never had a sexual remark made to or about her, never felt threatened by a man trying to chat her up, not even a wolf whistle apparently! In her words, “it must be because I’m so ugly”! Still, I find it hard to believe any woman could get to 37 and escape any kind of sexual harassment. So I’m wondering, AIBU? Has anyone on here never experienced any kind of sexual harassment? I’m a similar age to my friend, and I’m lucky in that I haven’t experienced anything really serious, but all the smaller things do add up and give me the rage at men and their sense of entitlement. When I was about 13 and in my school uniform, a man started touching himself on the seat on the train next to me, another man showed me his erection through his trousers on another train, lots of wolf whistles and sexual comments shouted at me while in school uniform (which is just so gross 🤮 ) this was early 2000s. Anyone know if this stuff still happens a lot to school girls? When I was 16 a man I was giving directions to on the street randomly groped my boob. Worst part about it though was that I instinctively slapped him (which got rid of him sharpish) and my friends acted like I was the unreasonable one, ‘why was I acting crazy’, I ‘need to chill out’ etc. which reinforced the idea that women just have to put up with this stuff. Other times I’ve been cornered by men, pinned to the wall, forcibly kissed, had my bum grabbed SO many times, I caught a man filming me once while I was getting changed in what I thought was a private area. What women have to put up with gives me the absolute rage. I just hope that it’s at least better now than it used to be. I wouldn’t really know cos I’m married and rarely in the drunken kind of situations anymore that a lot of these situations occurred in. I haven’t been wolf-whistled at or harassed in the street for a really long time, but that may be because I’m late 30s and it’s all the school girls that are having to put up with it…So tell me about all your experiences of sexual harassment over the years. And if you are that rare person, like my friend whose never been harassed, tell me why you think that is

I’m 39 and I’ve never been sexually harassed by men or boys, although I was extensively sexually harassed by a group of girls in my class when I was ten. The couple of times I’ve mentioned this online, I’ve had people insist that I must be forgetting, overlooking, or downplaying something from men or boys, and I’m genuinely not.

I think it might be because of a whole bunch of factors put together. I don’t take public transportation, I was single-sex educated from 12 to 22, I don’t go to bars or nightclubs, I live in a wintry US state where people are always driving their cars because it’s so damn cold for at least six months (so no harassment while I’m out walking), I’m a SAHM with no male co-workers, and the places I go in a regular basis usually have more women than men there.

Sexual behaviour towards a child is paedophilia not sexual harassment. Lets make that distinction at least. A man catcalling flashing, sexually commenting or touching a child and finding her sexually attractive is a deviance and a crime. It took me a long time to realise that. It wasn't just because you were female, it's because you were a child.

Similarly sexual assault and rape are sexual violence. Lets not call it 'harassment' and somehow downplay it. Not that creepy sexual harassment and unwanted attention is OK at any age and some of it really made my life difficult at the time. But some of the incidents many women here have described go well beyond that.

I'm 60 now and and can reel off a long list of unacceptable sexual harassment I've encountered as a adult. At work from colleagues, strangers in the pub, from so called male friends, from random men on the street, the tube, creepy guys at the beach.

But what happened when I was underage? Just way beyond that definition. Men flashing their dicks at us as young as 9 or 10. Sexually assaulted by a middle aged family friend at 8. Age 13 and adult men staring, leering and commenting on my body, especially my DD cup boobs. Similar age, alone in the house and a friend of my mothers trying to kiss and touch me (and who knows what else he would have done - luckily I ran away to a neighbours house). All of that, those men were paedophiles, not 'just' sexual harassers.

It's been nice to get older and a bit more invisible.

I think the intent matters though. The intent of the man in the park would have been to intimidate and indecent exposure is often a crime which later leads to more serious offences such as sexual assault and rape. While you, personally were not offended, it's likely that man would have gone on to offend more seriously.

What do you want me to say? I am stating my experience and I sense that you don't believe me or else you doubt my motives. I would never say to people in real life that if you dress like a man, walk in a determined way, and look pissed off that you won't get hassled: I know all the arguments, all the issues involved, all the potential for victim blaming. I would be careful not to imply that women get hassled because of how the look or where they are.
As far as what I am basing this on, I have a daughter who talks to me about her own experience of being hassled, and I have lots of female friends who have been extensively harassed.

I think that on an anonymous mumsnet thread, it is ok for me to describe my experience, ok for me to speculate about what was different about me in my 20s, and that people should be able to listen to my point of view.

I had no male attention, either wanted or unwanted- that was my experience.

Neither was mine. I’ve got friends whose daughters were taught my male driving instructors and all were professional and above board.

Urghh so many incidents from pinged bra straps, hands up skirts, boobs grabbed by stranger to being followed on 3 occasions and fearing for my life. Twice on foot (once with a pushchair) and once at speed in a car for 20 miles. And yet I still count myself "lucky" as I got away on every occasion.

I was also horrified when a man hanging round the loos at a festival was leering at my 13 year old son until he saw me clock him... it's all so fucking depressing.

Same, and it's a bit upsetting to read people saying I must be "not remembering" or "think it wasn't harassment" -- I know catcalling is harassment, as are unwanted comments, even ones blokes might think are "positive"! But genuinely this has never happened to me, strange men have never looked twice at me, shouted anything, tried to touch me, grabbed at me, any of it.

I certainly did, I was sexually assaulted at 16, by my then employer. Wish i’d have reported him, but instead I quit my job (got my dad to tell him).

Thought of something else that felt ‘off’. Met a long-standing friend’s husband for the first time. (We were in our 50s by now). She said “this is my friend Sloth”. He said “hello” whilst looking at my chest. First impression: yuk

Yes. I see that but I wouldn’t count it as harassment as it wasn’t aimed at me personally and it didn’t intimidate me I was just thinking he must be freezing (was middle of winter). The worse thing that happened was a partner at work asked me if I am using contraception! I reported him immediately to HR. I was just a bit surprised he thought it was ok ask. I personally have a high bar as I know many women have suffered from horrific abuse.

-At 11 was running at school and had "they'll give you black eyes" shouted at me by an older boy

• at 16 a man gave me a lift back from work experience, locked the door and started stroking me.

-nights out had bra strap at back pulled , flicked, undone repeatedly

• in my 20s walking down street had a man walk to close and grab my private parts.
• in my early 20s walking into a pub and had "you dont get many of them to a pound" shouted by an old man.

-early 30s worked in a high school had lots of innapropriate comments said by teenage boys.

Now I'm old and overweight and dont go out drinking etc I dont get anything said. Or I simply cant hear it.

And me. Whistling, office jokes and cat calls are harmless. Proper sexual assault is a very different thing.

Are they harmless though?
Why should anyone be subject to inappropriate office jokes?

As for being cat called. That can be very intimidating if you’re on your own.

I was first flashed at when I was 5 and again when I was in my 20s.

I'm in my 60s now and have experienced all sorts of sexual harassment from male work colleagues rubbing up against me while passing by, being forced against a wall by another colleague after we'd agreed to share a taxi after a night out with a group of other colleagues, numerous suggestive and outright disgusting comments all the way up to two cases of serious sexual assault.

As I get older I feel I'm turning into a man-hater. I honestly think that a large majority of men would behave in a disgusting sexual way towards women if they thought they'd get away with it.

I am happily married now though but I didn't marry until late in life, mainly due to a couple of abusive relationships.

In general, I have little respect for most men and I trust none of them.

Inappropriately touched in public. Urgh. It makes me want to die inside, just thinking about it.

It’s all a spectrum. Office jokes and catcalls are one thing then flashing is further along then the worst crimes. Look at Wayne couzens.

Mostly I was told I was ugly in various forms by total strangers while minding my own business (which I do think counts - it stems from the same belief that we only exist for their amusement). Also more typical stuff although I've been relatively lucky and I think men can tell I'll bite back.

I think if you work in a very female dominated sector, look quite big and intimidating and don't go to pubs or clubs you feasibly could have totally avoided it but I'm still surprised.

That was exactly who I was thinking of when I said that indecent exposure is often an earlier crime before moving onto more severe ones. But you're right he was also whatsapping horrible misogynistic crap to his colleagues.

I was sexually abused from about 3 until 8, drivers yelling comments from their cars from about age 12, my uncles friend asking me at about 11, if I knew how to put a condoms on a guy. The teacher all the girls knew would stand behind us and look down our shirts. A man coming up behind me in a bar and sticking his hand down the front of my pants without even speaking to me. A Senior Director in one job that was well know to sexualy harass and bully all women under 35, and HR struggling to find him a new PA. So, so many random men making comments in the street, far too many to count, but one that stands out is a guy I smiled at because it was near Christmas and he looked like Father Christmas, so he returned the favour by telling me I had nice tits as he passed me. So many men are absolute pigs, and nonces are not the rare unicorn so many people want to believe them to be.

I find it hard to believe some women have no bad experiences. I'm pretty average although when I was younger I was slim and I'm nearly 6ft so I stand out.

I had a lot of issues in my first job at 17. I was brought into the offices of the salesmen upstairs and asked to "twirl" in front of visiting reps who made comments. I once walked out to get lunch and a guy driving behind me nearly crashed into a woman and her buggy whilst staring at me. She then screamed at me in a packed town that it was my fault. At around this time I had a serious stalker, a guy I'd guess in his late 40's who used to stand outside the shop and follow me everywhere. I ended up having to get a bus home (I lived 5 minutes walk away so literally 1 stop) just so he thought I lived further away.

I have been assaulted by men barging into ladies toilets in pubs and kicking the door of the cubicle open.

My father in laws best friend followed me to the toilets in a restaurant and blocked my exit asking for a kiss and a quick grope. Luckily someone else came to the toilets and I ran. He tried every time I saw him for a while.

I also feel I was very, very close to a rape situation at a house party for New Years Eve 1999. A guy who was a brother of someone I knew would not leave me alone even though I was always out with my ex bf when I saw him. He tried to barge a bathroom door open and I opened the window and contemplated jumping out to get away. Again, luckily a man and woman came to the toilet and I managed to escape.

These are just the worst ones but there are many more lower level events.

Couldn't go at the weekend at 18 without getting groped by older men on the dance floor, it was horrible!

It seems more likely that it has been normalised and she just doesn't recognise it for what it is.

@FloraDora2 I'm sorry this happened to you. I hope you've managed to cope and not let this horrendous assault affect you over the years.

You can say what on earth you like. What you can’t have on an open forum for it to stand without comment if people disagree. You are making assumptions about why I have written my comments which are completely wrong. I didn’t say anything about your motives or your experiences.

I don’t know why you can’t just read what I said and instead you rewrite it in your own head. You say you wouldn’t imply that women get hassled because of where they are but that’s exactly what you did: you implied that part of the reason you didn’t get hassled was because you didn’t go to parties and clubs. And yet I have explained twice why that is problematic.

I don’t understand why you can’t also understand why I consider it strange that someone who didn’t get hassled at all would think they know better where it was likely to happen than someone who’s experienced a lot of harassment, groping and offensive sexual behaviour.

I walk in a determined way, don’t dress provocatively and don’t smile at all and sundry and still have experienced all of those things. In the day time too. It might help a bit but doesn’t stop the average perv; if they’re willing to touch up girls in school uniforms then there’s no bar below which they won’t crawl.

But I’m sure you will just refuse to take on board my points and just reiterate that your experience is as valid as anyone else’s (it isn’t because of the conclusions you reach but there we go - dismissing other women’s experiences is as rife among women as among men).

@BG2015

I don't think it's had any lasting effect but whenever the memory of it emerges again I remind myself of what might have happened if I had struggled or tried to call for help.