Is it correct that the golders green attacker had earlier attacked a Muslim man?

[tofumad]

If so is it mental health and not anti semitism? That would be much better for the Jewish community, I think, not to have had an anti semitic attack. However I'm not sure of the facts. But if true it should be advertised to enhance feeling of safety in the community.

Oh for heavens sake, the first victim was a man the attacker had known for 29 plus years, in time it will come out why he stabbed him.

The second attack which had been deemed as a terrorism incident by the people who have access to the facts against Jewish people. He travelled to a Jewish area and attacked obviously Jewish people.

No amount of false nativity can him antisemitism, it cannot hide when someone is seeking to pretend anti semitism doesn’t exist.

The media and government are finally picking up on anti semitism and are taking action. This must be very frustrating for anti semites who hitherto probably felt they had free rein to say what they wanted.

So yes the terrorist stabbed his friend who was also Muslim , a friend he had known for 20 plus years. The reasons behind this have not been disclosed.

The suspect then went on to travel to a Jewish area and committed an act of terror against the Jewish community by stabbing two Jewish men.

Thats it!

The fact that this needs to be repeatedly explained to people - either genuinely or faux-not understanding, is horrifying.

You aren't asking questions though, are you?
Of your own admission in your first post, you said you didn't know the facts. It's difficult to know why when every TV news station and every newspaper on this island is reporting exactly the same information and there's been a huge amount of coverage. People like myself have given you the information that has led the investigating authorities to label the attack on the two Jewish men as (blatantly) anti-Semitic. In the meantime, as some of them have shared on Mumsnet, the Jewish community are understandably frightened by the recent anti-Semitic attacks and the rise in anti-Semitism in the UK. Then you rock up saying that the Jewish community will somehow feel better knowing that the attacker stabbed his Muslim friend first. I very much doubt that. The Muslim man was targeted because of a personal disagreement and the two Jewish men were targeted because they were Jewish. Two entirely different motivations. It's not rocket science.

Both as they're not mutually exclusive.

Exactly! I feel physically sick that there’s people who think they’re being clever stirring up hatred against Jews. Mumsnet should be ashamed of themselves allowing this to happen.

In the 1920s and 30s people stood by excusing Hitler, frightened to challenge him. Wondering what they can get out of it. The fact this is allowed to happen again when we know the outcome is horrifying.

Hitlers supporters came in different guises; those who believed his ideology, those who didn’t but knew three would benefit and those who stood by and didn’t do anything. Without this third group Hitler would never have been capable of his atrocities.

What we are seeing now is the people snd groups who would have supported Hitler, either actively or passively

would your answer change if it was found out that he had been investigated before for homophobia and stabbing his straight friend was because of a personal disagreement of that his straight friend was trying to stop him? Or do you think that someone who would try and kill someone because they were gay, couldn’t possible also attack anyone else for any other reason, for example trying to stop their hatred?

You see this a lot with mass shootings in the US for instance where the perpetrator has an issue with say the school they often attack family members first.

the misinformation and minimising are all over SM. I can’t believe people are gullible enough to believe it or so weak they won’t stand up to the hate.

Well. I heard that the man who carried out the attacks (including the first one), before deliberately travelling to a Jewish area, and deliberately targeting Jewish people, put on a t-shirt. Putting on a t-shirt isn't an antisemitic act so surely nothing else he did can be assumed to be antisemitic?

They could just be the actions of a person who wears T-shirts?

(Mental illness and / or committing other crimes or in fact, wearing t-shirts, doesn't make a targeted attack on Jews for being Jewish less antisemitic. He didn't just happen to be in Golders Green)

It would, quite obviously, be both.

And trying to be all "we can't call it antisemitism because we don't have all the facts!" but then diagnosing the perpetrator as paranoid schizophrenic just shows it's not facts you're interested in. It's minimising antisemitism.

If you're allowed to make assumptions about diagnosis, we're allowed to make equally reasonable assumptions about his intent.

And I would suggest we are also allowed to make assumptions about the intent of posters on this thread who seek so earnestly to minimise anti semitism.

Honestly, I really feel for the Jewish community - there's a clear rise in anti semitism in this country and these faux naive threads trying to deny it are part of that.

Jews have lived peacefully in this country for centuries, their right to do so must be strongly protected.

The faux naivety around this is transparent. Attempts to demonstrate it wasn’t antisemitism and how the poor Jews should be relieved are not fooling us.

If you are too stupid to understand that two things can be true at once it’s probably best not to advertise your own foolishness.

It appears the attacker was both a violent man with mental health issues and a radical antisemite who wanted to harm Jewish people.

The fact that someone with mental health issues can be radicalised does not make their antisemitism less dangerous.

IIRC Prevent training actually suggests those who have poor social skills and MH issues are at increased risk of radicalisation. I also believe there is a problem with radicalisation in UK prisons.

Playing down the fact that this man went out to deliberately attack visibly Jewish people and minimise antisemitism is deplorable.

So has the OP addressed the issue of the attacker travelling across London to Golders Green from South East London. He apparently went from Southwark ( South London ) where the attack on his friend occurred, to Brent Cross and then to Golders Green ( North London ) . To anyone unfamiliar with London that’s a journey of a number of stops passing through very densely populated areas. Brent Cross has a very large shopping centre. Southwark is very multi cultural but Golders Green is so linked with the Jewish community I cannot think for a micro second it wasn’t targeting them. ( apologies if that has already been said ).

Two things can be true … a person can suffer a mental illness AND an attack can be anti semitic.

Honestly, every time I read this sort of antisemitism it makes me 100% more committed to calling it out. Hopefully there will be something in the governments new actions to root out such antisemitism and the platforms which support it!

Ffs - why does anti Jewish hatred and fucking attacks and violence on an ethnic minority always have to be downgraded?? I see you. And I see what this is meant to do.

Same. It’s horrible.

OP - maybe you were ignorant at the start of this thread. Maybe. But if you are still persisting now you’re not just ignorant but looking like you have an agenda and it’s very unpleasant.

@tofumad wow, you really sound so invested in the intricate ins and outs of the motivation and triggering events behind this whole situation. I mean, who wouldn't want to dive deep into that level of psychological analysis right after a stabbing? Have you considered doing a degree in criminal psychology you seem obsessed with the topic so why not explore your special interest further? It's probably really worthwhile.

The last time Europe saw such anti semitism we saw the killing of 6 million Jews. Here are some of the shoes of those rounded up and slaughtered, all because of The fact they were Jewish. Sometimes these pictures can be overwhelming but we must never forget.

Make no mistake, this and similar atrocities throughout the history of antisemitism always start with people turning a blind eye. It’s time for people to decide whether they would have been for Hitler or against. Because that decision is no longer hypothetical

(pictures from Auschwitz museum)

He is mentally ill we know that, it was an antisemitism attack we also know that.
He walked by people that weren’t Jews and did nothing, he went straight to an area known for being populated with Jews and he attacked 2 Jewish men. If it was ‘only’ mental illness he would of attacked others he passed yet he didn’t, he contained himself until he found his targets

I see Zach is still trying to cling to some kind of credibility. We are about the environment (but let’s allow free immigration to necessitate decimating our countryside with housing and drain on resources having a massive effect of the environment and infrastructure. Yes we are for equality (unless you’re Jewish when we will be more concerned about the person who stabbed them than the actual victims of the attack).

Oh and he’s desperately still clinging on to the fact that Jews fear attack and the marches aren’t an issue. Apparently they are ok because he’s a Jew and went on them.

He really needs to let this “I’m Jewish so couldn’t possibly be anything but supportive of Jews” farce go. We don’t have to look far into the past to see this is a nonsense proposition - there were even Jewish collaborators with the Nazis for example

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stella_Goldschlag

ZG reminds me of Suella Braverman/Priti Patel/even Shabana Mahmood saying, ‘oh I come from a family of immigrants, so of course I’m not anti-immigration!’ as they make our asylum laws tougher and tougher. Then, if anyone accuses them of being cruel or racist, they say, ‘but how can I, as the child of immigrants, be racist?’’ Please.

Yes this is my problem @mnhq. If this was against another group I think you’d have stepped in by now.

it’s not okay.

I agree. Please can you at least comment on this thread @MNHQ? You’ve commented on another thread about a poster criticising her friend’s dress, yet despite people asking you to comment on this thread, we have had radio silence from you. That is appalling.

I don’t think the @ works, you have to basically report your post to notify them

Thanks. I reported my post and, via that channel, asked them to look at this thread. They replied, saying they’d look at it. I appreciate they’re busy, but considering it’s taken way less time for them to review other threads, their silence on this is odd.