Don't like Farage but..

[TheBlueKoala]

I do agree with him that foreign nationals shouldn't be able to claim benefits and to scrap PIP for mild mental health issues. And that the money saved should go into mental health care so that everyone with mild mental health problems can access NHS care rapidly.

Have you actually read the link you posted? It literally says "The key with any PIP application is to be honest about your condition affects you. Don’t exaggerate your responses but most importantly you should also not playdown or be afraid to express how you really feel."

Yes, a lot of people need support filling in the forms and a lot of people struggle to fill them in for various health-related reasons. Which is why such support is vital. Don't position it as some kind of a cheat code to claim pip unlawfully.

Pretty sure you know what I and millions of others don’t like about the ECHR including the leaders of two parties with significant support

I genuinely don't know what you don't like about the ECHR - it seems madness to me to want to leave an outside Court of Human Rights that I think would be a bit of protection if things went tits up in Government and they'd pulled us out.
Wasn't it set up just after the 2nd World War as protection for our freedom and rights to try and protect us against the horrors of what had gone on?
Why would it be a good thing to get rid of that outside protection?

I must have responded using the word sovereignty numerous times. The loss of which is what I don't like and why I’d like to leave or reform the ECHR which has expanded its powers well beyond its original remit with increasing encroachment to individual countries sovereignty. I also signposted other peoples views and where you might find them but they are generally less important to me than my own views which is why I don’t want to spend time discussing or justifying the validity of them.
I have faith in our government to keep the already existing protections or put in place any necessary new ones to deal with changing situations without input from foreign institutions. After all we live in a mature democracy and can surely protect our own citizens and simply don’t believe any government would strip away our existing rights. Incidentally if we got a government that decided to do that how exactly would our membership of the ECHR stop them?

You don’t know me. Anyone in real life who does know me, would know I am being genuine. If I can’t ask questions on here, about other people’s points of view, this is not the forum I thought it was and I should step away for this evening.
You have probably done me a favour, I have spent far too long on here today 😂

I have responded see post but have a good evening. I too have probably spent far too long on here today.

Actually I responded to someone else but it explains my views.

I think your faith is touching, but very naive.

In terms of 'how would the ECHR stop them' in respect of a hypothetical government stripping away key rights - that should be obvious. Someone brings a case, it runs through the courts in the UK. If the UK Supreme Court does not deliver a satisfactory resolution, the ECHR is the next step. For something like stripping away workers' rights (which we know Reform want to do), the ECHR is our backstop. Trust Reform at your peril. And the Conservatives are no better.

But what practically do they do. Send in an army, bomb us, send our politicians to international jail. Financial sanctions possibly but if a government was minded to strip away rights would they care.

The point is to deregulate - see Reform's announcements re fracking. Given Farage's personal interests in crapto currencies they'll also want to deregulate there too - just like Trump - money laundering free for all.

Regarding the ECHR - Reform will tell you to rely on common law - but common law didn't give the right to challenge the state if you've been harmed by it or want to challenge the states own investigations (see Hillsborough or Worboys).
See also challenging corporal punishment in schools and discrimination against gay people.

The idea that these rights will be automatically replaced is nonsense. They wont want to replicate the system that would get in their way.

Brexit was supposed to make the country richer - instead its damaged GDP significantly.
Sovereignty is all important - until they want to prorogue Parliament.
Sovereignty is all important - until they dont care about peace in NI.

Leaving the ECHR isnt some kind of golden ticket to make the countries services run better - its just creating another opportunity for a free for all. The average person will be no better off but someone that wants to challenge the state will be left with more limited avenues.

The justice system will be the next thing they blame - political appointments for judges. What could go wrong? (hint - see James Orr's views on abortion)

Thank you but I genuinely don’t need PIP. My point was that restricting not allowing PIP to people with “mild” mental illness makes no sense because it’s used by doctors in relation to severity of illness and treatment needs, not ability to do daily tasks associated with PIP or ADP.

The assessment should be based on the descriptors not the name of the illness or whether it is “mild”.

Exactly

I think people like Farage love everyone desperately debating these sorts of issues, because then we aren’t focusing on issues like their well established linked with the ultra rich-who they really represent.

@pointythings you would think people would realise that having very few checks and balances in the system would put us in a similar situation to the US at the moment -all down to the whims of someone off their nut on power , but no , because our right wing dominated press have been playing , look here, don’t look there because it suits their agenda and an awful lot of voters still get their news from those same sources - they aren’t seeing Trumps night time up all night ranting - the gross narcissism, the falling asleep on the job etc etc , they aren’t reading about the mafia style money building, insider trading -

Exactly -

'Sovereignty ' is such a pathetic, valueless reason for keeping the ECHR.

How can anyone think British entitlement and exceptionalism trumps all the extremely important benefits of the ECHR ?

That is just pure xenophobia, the same ridiculous arrogance that landed us with the stupidity of Brexit that has damaged this country beyond repair.

Why has the PIP bill gone up several million over the last few years? And do you agree that we are not able to afford the ever rising benefits bill?

I don't believe that justifies reform classing anxiety and depression as mild mental health issues, cutting people's benefits and forcing them back to work.

Well - it seems to be veering into a chat where PIP is a benefit that saves folk working.

It isn’t - it’s irrelevant to your working status - it’s a payment to help you manage the additional costs that you have due to your condition.

As to why - well if the rise is due to MH claims then really we have to look at the NHS wait times - support resources that are stripped and gone. If say you’ve got anorexia but you can’t get support until you’re needing some severe intervention there’s going to be a point where it’s probably impacting your life so severely that you need PIP to manage - this probably will link to capability to work as well in the end, but PIP doesn’t mean you aren’t working.

What impact does a complete stranger getting Pip or the benefits bill have on anyone's life on here?

Because that money could be better spent elsewhere?

On what? Will the savings from the lwcra cuts that came in this month be spent on other things?

Can I be frank though, if you are working and leading a pretty normal life then I don’t see why your costs are that radically increased. You should get it - I know someone my age (64) who gets it, she’s has done for many years, I would say she is a bit odd, personality disorder etc but I wouldn’t say her costs are any more than yours or mine - it’s this kind of thing I don’t think the country can afford.

Well, Nadia Eweida took her case to the ECHR and was allowed to wear her cross to work as a result. This mattered to her greatly. The fact that British Airways then treated her badly is on them.

This is the thing. It sounds fine in theory, to put the money into the system rather than giving to individuals, but if you look as always he’s addressing a problem that doesn’t exist with a solution that’s either already happening or doesn’t fully answer the problem.

By all means put more money into mental health support and the NHS - it’s much needed! But we don’t have a vast swathe of immigrants coming and claiming PIP for feeling a little bit down, or even citizens from birth doing that.

Mind you, some people will have come over here having been victims of torture so I wouldn’t want them to be denied any mental health support needed. And often at the hands of regimes whose existence is our fault at least partially so no point saying “why is it our problem”.

This money spent on helping people is better spent where?