Voting for Reform.the north/south

[Jollyjupiter]

As a proud Northerner i can say 80 per cent of my peer group will vote for Reform in May. Do you think it will be a North v South split?

This is such a depressing attitude.

So Reform voters are voting for "anything that will piss off the educated wokerati", are they?

Already the law.

Reform offer nothing new. Its the same Tory austerity and anti immigration nonsense we spent 14 years learning to hate and eventually voted out. I have no reason to think Northerners (as a group) are any more likely to be fooled by this nonsense than anyone else OP.

There's nothing 'classist' about suggesting that Reform has a great deal of support from less educated people. It's a matter of fact supported by voter profiling stats.
It would only be classist if PP had linked being ill informed/less intellectually able with being working class. She did not. In accusing her of classism when she is referencing knowledge and intellect, you did that all by yourself.
Is there a reason why when some one says the words 'ill informed' you hear 'working class'? As a WC person, I consider that the height of snobbery.

Oh listen to yourself. I'll stand by my remark, It's nonsense and yes, snobbish. Just because someone doesn't have a degree doesn't automatically make them ill informed and stupid. There are many ways to measure knowledge and intellect other than a bit of paper. And who are the people traditionally less likely to have the opportunity to access a university education? Yes, the Working classes. Think again.

I posted this before and it’s still happening so bears repeating.

The fact that this thread keeps reverting to accusations of people being patronized, talked down to etc is because I believe that is an observed Farage and Trump technique - and a Reform one - of whipping up self-righteousness and therefore support through division.

It is true historically (and now) that right wing politicians (and arguably others) mobilize fears of immigrants, of difference, of anything really and blame the woes of those that are most disadvantaged on these in order to grow momentum and support. In doing so they have and do weaponise the fears and situations of those less fortunate (in a number of ways). I believe Farage and his bunch of clowns is doing that now and just like the ‘anti-expert’ attitude we’ve seen before this accusation of snobbery and classicism is a known playbook.

The pp is correct on that point though, people without degrees are not ill-informed. There are so many people working in jobs without one.

And I absolutely did not say they were.
I’ve got no intention of joining in on that one.
Just pointing out that this thread endlessly reverts to a similar argument and I don’t think it is entirely coincidental.

It’s not coincidental it’s from a pp that was probably a slip of views re people without degrees, if you read back you’ll see the initial post.

I'm in the south, I work with a lot of NHS professionals. The majority appear to be voting for Reform, and yes lots of different ethnicities and nationalities.

No, of course not having a degree doesn't make people ill informed or stupid. And absolutely there are other ways to measure knowledge and intellect than a piece of paper.
One would be the ability to articulate the reasons for their voting choices. Explaining the policies their preferred party has that make them in their opinion best equipped for government. Demonstrating some bredth of understanding about wider issues than sound bites about immigration, explaining why they have confidence the candidates they will vote for can do the job. Understanding the consequences of the rest of the package that comes with a Reform vote and so on.
Never on any Reform thread or in RL has anyone done this. So it's difficult to break the link between Reform voting and lack of informed critical thinking.
We then have the unfortunate state of affairs that not only can Reform voters not demonstrate the intellectual process behind their choice, but that Reform is disproportionately popular amongst the less educated, which creates the unfortunate correlation between education and less informed/well thought through voting choices in the context we are discussing.
Rather that virtue signalling and trying to shame posters, Reform supporters would do better to dispel the myth and demonstrate that a Reform vote is a well informed, well thought out choice. Because I couldn't agree more that class and education are not reliable indicators of how well informed a person is and/or their capacity for critical thinking. Unfortunately, poor or unexplained support for Reform is.

I’m talking about it not being coincidental across the whole thread (and many other conversations, interviews etc etc) There’s a reason that people keep jumping on it and weaponising it.

No one is ‘weaponising’ a post. They’re picking up with something they disagree with. Everyone agrees it’s not correct anyway.

Jesus they wouldn’t be my friends and peers if that was their voting intention. It’s not North/South it’s just imbeciles/non imbeciles!

The issue is frequently weaponised by the likes of Farage, Trump and other right wing populists. Just as it has been historically. I have seen it happen across this thread too.
That is the point I was making.

Ok but it didn’t apply to @TwitterRattithe post you quoted

Gosh. If they vote that way in a GE they might be signing their own death warrants, in terms of careers. Farage despises the NHS.

I hope they are all British Citizens as they could be in deep financial trouble if Farage hands them their P45s. Non-Brit-no-benefits is another of his policies. And even if they are British Citizens, Reform's policy is 4 months of benefits, then you are on your own.

“Appear”? Why would anyone vote for the destruction of the institution that employs them? I’m taking that with the contents of a salt mine.

Not necessarily. Good health professionals will always have a job as people will always need healthcare. If the nhs folds they will be employed by the private companies who I presume would replace it.

In my limited experience across 24 years and many nhs trusts, support for the current nhs is waning from within. It is creaky, inefficient and often extremely frustrating to work within. We receive hassle from managers for not meeting targets, hassle from patients for not seeing them quickly enough (understandable) and I am forever apologising to patients that the system 'says no'. Friends who have moved into private practice are much more relaxed, they have the correct equipment and time to do their job properly and provide higher quality care, with higher job satisfaction. I used to love my job, and I still care deeply about my patients (who deserve better) and my colleagues (who are doing their very best in a system which feels like constantly walking through thick mud) But my organisation and the nhs as a whole? Not so much. I would love to see it completly overhauled

Overhauling is one thing, but an unenlightened hatchet job is another. I don't think Reform would have the expertise or take the care needed to successfully reconfigure the NHS. It would be Lansley on steroids IMHO.

NW here and I don’t know one person who votes for either RW party. A handful are looking at the Greens but that’s it. I spoke to 250 people on the doorstep too - zero reform, maybe 5 Lib Dem’s - undecideds (having previously been Labour ) a handful- more of a green dribble than a wave.

Polanski is our best squeeze message… the guys a fucking loop da loop!

The NHS was “overhauled” at least three times during the time I I worked for it. It cost squillions every time and ended up worse.

I don’t believe you sorry.

Those of us working within SEND feel the same way, and think the new proposals by this government might just work if people can trust us.

But again you're doubling down on your point that all reform voters are thick due to being less educated and ill informed! says who? Have you asked for individual essays to assess their critical thinking skills? Are all green voters intelligent and educated? Because I've seen green voters on these forums proclaiming Zack is a God just because he seems nice, but struggle to tell you what their economic policy is. It cuts both ways. What we need to avoid is labelling people into good and bad divisions.