Colleague warning me off reporting inappropriate group chat

[JutrScot]

I’ve been made aware (with evidence) of some male colleagues who have a non work group chat with each other in which sexualised comments have been made about me and other colleagues.

The colleague who made me aware of this has said there’s no point reporting this as 1. It’s a non work group chat with messages outside of working hours and 2. Incase of any implications on our own careers.

I want to press ahead to report but she has given me some slight doubt. I’d appreciate anyone with a greater grasp of these matters than me giving an indication.

Doesn’t matter. WhatsApp is social media and if they are discussing female colleagues in terms of their sexual fantasies, there is scope for disciplinary action. It displays a lack of respect for their colleagues and women in general, and worse, a suggestion of the need to control them. How would you feel if you had to maintain a professional relationship with a man you knew was speaking about you to others in the workplace in these terms. It’s totally unacceptable and excusing/minimising it just encourages it.

He / they won't give a shit about that, they'll just laugh at her (maybe not to her face which they've already decided not to sit on in favour of something to do with her arse). They think they're untouchable. Report.

I’d report it to HR. Even if they were using their own phones, they’re still discussing colleagues they work with in such a horrid way. Definitely report. HR policy should cover this sort of thing.

Im not sure legally how this would be different to going home and telling your dh what an a-hole ypur boss is, or your sister what a hot guy you work with?
Furthermore a screenshot is really not proof of anything, can easily be knocked up by anyone. If they can't examine the devices, there's really no proof, certainly not strong enough to base disciplinary action on.

If these are conversations happening outside of working hours, not on company premises and not using company devices, then I don't see what your employer can realistically do? It's like your employer policing what you do/say in your own home...they can't. If these messages are being exchanged during working hours, on company premises or on company devices, then that's different. You would need evidence of these chats, probably recent evidence.

I would report if you have evidence. I’ve seen people lose their jobs over remarks about other colleagues in group chats. The chats were nothing to do with work and just groups of colleagues who were friends - but the comments were absolutely disgusting and someone obviously felt they were too far and reported. Everyone who was in that chat was placed on suspension and two people lost their jobs.

I’d report it as it paints a picture - maybe more incriminating things may make their way out of the woodwork that are said / done on work time, because of you taking this step.

They absolutely can if the messages breach your code of conduct.

I’ve seen it happen in my workplace and you only have to google “sacked over group chat messages” to see numerous articles about staff being sacked for similar things. This type of thing will be upheld at tribunal if the messages and evidence are deemed bad enough.

Quite

If these are conversations happening outside of working hours, not on company premises and not using company devices, then I don't see what your employer can realistically do?

Depends on the employer's policy, doing the above can still be cause for suspension/investigation at some companies.

https://traveltomorrow.com/two-british-airways-crew-suspended-after-fat-shaming-colleague-on-whatsapp/

Different scenario, but i reported a senior colleague for sexually harassing a student. I had a lot of reservations - personal repurcussion, what if it wasn't enough and caused him to escalate if he felt invincible etc etc.
I did it, he was sack and will no doubt also be struck off.
I've been very cautious telling colleagues it was me, but all the female colleagues I've told have been unanimously impressed, I'm just selective with mentioning it to any male colleagues (obviously i don't have to tell anyone), the male colleagues/friends who know have known him longer than me, and witnessed more of his behaviour and despise him.

When i told my manager, he was very decisive and the first thing he said was "are you prepared to make this official and give me a written statement", it was clear that they were fully aware of his behaviour but needed a formal complaint not hearsay to go on.

Someone always has to be the first to formally stand up to these men, and until that happens nothing changes.

It would be taken seriously where I work.

I’ve been involved in similar situations where we’ve fired and made it clear that if they went to tribunal we’d be relying on the content of the emails/CCTV/messages, which are likely to be picked up by press.

Well yes, but I posted because not every workplace tolerates shit like this and it's wrong to say management wouldn't care.

Morally you’re totally in the right to report this. Everyone here going on about how it’s not on work time or on work devices so can’t be reported needs to attend some refresher training on sexual harassment! The OP has somehow been made aware of lewd comments being made about her and other female colleagues, in writing, by people they have to continue working with every day. That’s not acceptable.

However.

Sadly, the world doesn’t always work as it should, and I understand why your colleague is wary of you reporting in reality. In my couple of decades of working in various environments, there tends to be a bit of a pattern with these things involving bullying or harassment, especially where it’s a bit vague or not clear cut. Everyone outwardly sides with the victim and agrees yes it’s awful and not acceptable etc. But a few years later, one of the parties is usually gone and it’s not usually the perpetrator.

I’ve sadly worked in many places with that older male colleague who everyone knows to be wary of, whose name elicits raised eyebrows and awkward shuffles, while there’s a string of departed talented female colleagues who everyone talks about very fondly but who ‘had a bit of trouble’ or ‘didn’t quite fit in’ or left for ‘personal reasons’.

I honestly don’t know what I’d do in your shoes and I think I’d have to weigh up the likely outcomes for myself very carefully.

Likewise, wrong to say they would care

Report to HR. I don’t know much about employment law but just wanted to say how disgusting some men still are, in this day and age, in the workplace.

When I worked for Government Legal Department as a contractor a paralegal (male) had been sending sex related texts (unwanted) to a female colleague (contractor). I told her to report to someone but unsure if she did or where she is now. He’s now flying high in civil service. Presumably doing the same thing. He tried to call me a “daily mail reader” and a “Karen” during the week I started as a contractor, with no proof and I told him face to face if I heard that again I’d go straight to head of dept. And complain. And I would’ve done.

Check your work policy thoroughly though to see if it covers out of work comments. They differ from company to company.

How long have you worked there?

It is wrong to say they wouldn't care in every case. Happy now?

I experienced something like this once.
Worse though because there were things said to my face too, etc, etc.
However, group messages formed a major part of my evidence.

I complained and nothing was done. I then became a target.

I left my job, claimed constructive dismissal and ended up settling for a £30k pay out though the company refused to admit fault. It took about a year to get to that point.

It could have been double that if it had taken it to court but that would have dragged things on for longer.

Honestly the whole thing took a toll on me and it took me a few years to fully recover from how and I was treated.

My advice would just be to leave.
If you have colleagues who feel comfortable behaving like this ... That's a toxic workplace. I'd start looking for a different job now if I were you.

Report it

only way we change things and look how much progress we’ve made with sexual harassment in the workplace

you’ve got this x

This may help.

https://www.farrer.co.uk/news-and-insights/sexual-harassment-outside-work-when-will-an-employer-be-liable/

The fact that the texts are in private devices makes no difference at all.
The texts I evidenced in my case were also on private devices.
The end result is the same - you feel uncomfortable at work.

This is sexual harassment and illegal. report it, if your employer doesn't do anything about it they are actually breaking the law. You could also sue them if they discriminate you after reporting it.

Well done! In this job market though it can be hard to “just leave”.

That's true.

And why should she have to.

It's difficult to know what the best thing to do is.