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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

English people are second class citizens

501 replies

NotAnotherScarf · 23/04/2026 20:05

Aibu To be annoyed about so many Facebook posts about celebrating st George's day being racist. No one post this for st Patrick's day, st Andrew's or st David's.... Hogmanay and burns night have parties

By celebrating being English, passing democracy to the world, Shakespeare, Agatha Christie, TV, the jet engine, the internet... railways, the industrial revolution, beer, the Beatles... All should be celebrated.

Yes we did some shite things...but white slavery (20+ million), the Holocaust, programs in Eastern Europe. King Leopold of Belgium hunting African people. The depopulation of parts of the USSR, the ethnic cleansing of Bosnia.....all things that in the last 125 years England has nothing to do with...yet people like to think that we who celebrate our Englishness are scum.

OP posts:
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mathanxiety · 23/04/2026 20:32

Most of you are in fact second class citizens. You live in a society that has a caste system masquerading as a class system.

Coffeeandbooks88 · 23/04/2026 20:33

lazyarse123 · 23/04/2026 20:30

Turkey wasn't even a place when st George was birn. It was Anatolia. And a few other countries have claimed him as their patron saint.

To be fair how many countries celebrate a native to their country saint? One to research if you feel bothered. I would support a change to St Edmund myself.

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 23/04/2026 20:33

Hannaseed · 23/04/2026 20:27

The OP

Why? You can’t just call people names without explaining what about the post is idiotic. I think she’s right that other countries are allowed to be patriotic and we are not. I think saying that the right-wing use the flag to hide their racism as patriotism is also fair comment. But calling people ‘idiot’ and disappearing is against the spirit of the site.

5128gap · 23/04/2026 20:33

I've just looked and there's loads going on. A festival in London last weekend, various events round the country, at NT places and castles, and English Heritage have a page on their website about events. You obviously aren't that patriotic OP if you couldn't have a quick Google to find out how to celebrate.

Hallamule · 23/04/2026 20:34

TeenLifeMum · 23/04/2026 20:26

We were a bunch of empire building bastards and the racists have claimed our flag so it’s hard to see it as a positive thing at the moment.

Lots of peoples built Empires. Its hardly unique to the British.

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 23/04/2026 20:34

mathanxiety · 23/04/2026 20:32

Most of you are in fact second class citizens. You live in a society that has a caste system masquerading as a class system.

Explain that.

Uricon2 · 23/04/2026 20:34

You do know where St George was probably from, don't you OP?

It wasn't Milton Keynes, as a clue.

Hannaseed · 23/04/2026 20:35

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 23/04/2026 20:33

Why? You can’t just call people names without explaining what about the post is idiotic. I think she’s right that other countries are allowed to be patriotic and we are not. I think saying that the right-wing use the flag to hide their racism as patriotism is also fair comment. But calling people ‘idiot’ and disappearing is against the spirit of the site.

So is posting goady threads. But that hasn't stopped the idiot OP.

mathanxiety · 23/04/2026 20:36

Growing up in Ireland in the 70s and 80s it wasn't ok to fly an Irish flag. This was because of the Troubles in NI and the very prominent place of flags on both the UK and Ireland in the identification of the parties involved in the conflict. People didn't want to be seen to support extremism. Maybe you can see a parallel?

Coffeeandbooks88 · 23/04/2026 20:37

Uricon2 · 23/04/2026 20:34

You do know where St George was probably from, don't you OP?

It wasn't Milton Keynes, as a clue.

Most are aware. Doesn't mean you can't celebrate. 🙄 Just googled St Andrew. He never even visited Scotland or was Scottish. Why celebrate him then? Why not one of those saints living on Iona for example.

U53rName · 23/04/2026 20:38

user1471453601 · 23/04/2026 20:12

I think Greeks may have a problem with your belief the British passed democracy into the world.

Apart from that, I think your post reeks of goady.

Came here to say the same thing. OP, for the love of God…who taught you that the English invented democracy?

Conkersinautumn · 23/04/2026 20:38

Why do you feel victimised by bot bollocks on the Internet?

The problem is literally the 'yes, but' attitude. Stop minimising.

Shut up, start DOING shit to make the world better, not whinging 'they did it first/ worst'.

nomas · 23/04/2026 20:38

AppleKatie · 23/04/2026 20:07

I’ve seen loads of these types of posts today and yet none of these people have got off their arses and planned a party! If you want one plan it. If nobody wants to come to your party it’s probably not because parties themselves have been banned 🤔

Sadiq Khan has planned a big St George's Day party in London.

Ironically that just angers some people more Hmm

He can't win.

CarelessWimper · 23/04/2026 20:38

ColdAsAWitches · 23/04/2026 20:24

And out of curiosity, if English people are second class citizens, who are the first class citizens?

Cats 😸

Hannaseed · 23/04/2026 20:39

CarelessWimper · 23/04/2026 20:38

Cats 😸

Cats rule.

Coffeeandbooks88 · 23/04/2026 20:39

U53rName · 23/04/2026 20:38

Came here to say the same thing. OP, for the love of God…who taught you that the English invented democracy?

They didn't but the Magna Carta is the basis for many modern constitutions.

nomas · 23/04/2026 20:39

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 23/04/2026 20:33

Why? You can’t just call people names without explaining what about the post is idiotic. I think she’s right that other countries are allowed to be patriotic and we are not. I think saying that the right-wing use the flag to hide their racism as patriotism is also fair comment. But calling people ‘idiot’ and disappearing is against the spirit of the site.

Who is stopping you being patriotic?

SP2024 · 23/04/2026 20:40

I mean my kids made flags and painted shields at nursery today. Same kind of things they do for St Patrick’s Day. Same kind of celebrating my family does for all patron saints (ie nothing).

Femalemachinest · 23/04/2026 20:42

Not seen any posts. Tbh its post like this that make it seem racist because I dont understand your intentions. Same with the covering places in union jacks, it was following a racist movement. Im happy for flags to be flown, my grandad had a flag pole, but fly them continuously if its because youre around not because someone's told you too.

People now are so hung up on this now. Someone was murdered near me, 4 black British and 2 eastern Europeans charged.... still same comments about the usual types even though 4 was British, because they're black they must have got citizenship couldnt possibly be born here.

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 23/04/2026 20:42

nomas · 23/04/2026 20:39

Who is stopping you being patriotic?

I have no need, I don’t particularly like this country, but I think people who would like to celebrate are made to feel like they are racists.

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 23/04/2026 20:43

Hannaseed · 23/04/2026 20:35

So is posting goady threads. But that hasn't stopped the idiot OP.

I’m you think they are a troll, report them.

nomas · 23/04/2026 20:43

Coffeeandbooks88 · 23/04/2026 20:39

They didn't but the Magna Carta is the basis for many modern constitutions.

Much of the Magna Carta is borrowed from European continental feudal law.

SerendipityJane · 23/04/2026 20:43

mathanxiety · 23/04/2026 20:36

Growing up in Ireland in the 70s and 80s it wasn't ok to fly an Irish flag. This was because of the Troubles in NI and the very prominent place of flags on both the UK and Ireland in the identification of the parties involved in the conflict. People didn't want to be seen to support extremism. Maybe you can see a parallel?

The irony being you could have festooned your house with Irish flags in England because no one would recognise them 😀

Coffeeandbooks88 · 23/04/2026 20:43

Femalemachinest · 23/04/2026 20:42

Not seen any posts. Tbh its post like this that make it seem racist because I dont understand your intentions. Same with the covering places in union jacks, it was following a racist movement. Im happy for flags to be flown, my grandad had a flag pole, but fly them continuously if its because youre around not because someone's told you too.

People now are so hung up on this now. Someone was murdered near me, 4 black British and 2 eastern Europeans charged.... still same comments about the usual types even though 4 was British, because they're black they must have got citizenship couldnt possibly be born here.

That was because the police gave out their ethnicity when they didn't need to.

Allisnotlost1 · 23/04/2026 20:44

NotAnotherScarf · 23/04/2026 20:12

I've just got home from a party...my mates have organised. It happens every year in our middle class town... only us working class attend

A middle class town where only working class people attend parties? 🥳