To wonder why working class white boys do worse than any other ethnic group, and how we can change this?

[Carla786]

A lot of stuff I've read recently has argued the way school is set up disadvantages boys compared to girls. But this doesn't explain why white working class boys would perform worse than wc boys of other ethnicities.
Asian wc boys are more likely to have present fathers,,but black wc boys less likely than white boys (I think). So absent fathers I'm sure are part of the problem, but then maybe also black boys then have a protective factor that still boosts performance which white boys don't have? What could this be?

And how can white wc boys be helped? The question also remains why white wc girls are apparently less affected too : maybe I suppose tying in to school methods being more suited to the average girl?

https://www.spiked-online.com/2026/03/24/the-betrayal-of-white-working-class-boys/

I think this is bollocks. My dad is working class with no qualifications and he encouraged us all the more to do well at school. I would be considered middle class now which I'm not fond of if I'm honest but without the encouragement I might not have done so well.
I think a lack of vocational options at secondary school for kids is a massive problem. Not everyone is academic and schools haven't changed for decades. Some kids would do better with basic english, maths and science and then the rest of the time spent on more practical learning. I also think for the kids without male role models, the distinct lack of youth clubs and extracurricular options leads them down the wrong paths. They feel like noone gives a shit about them and they wouldn't be far wrong would they? I heard labour are investing in youth clubs on a small scale as a pilot in a few big cities. It couldn't come sooner in my opinion and I hope they roll them out everywhere.

Yes all this. Macho fathers not valuing education.

What do you mean? Do you mean in schools? As pp have said, there are plenty of programmes and financial support for this cohort. Teachers are specifically asked to focus on them (as well as other identified groups) when we both predict and breakdown our results.
We have to explain outcomes.

Too much time spent gaming and watching influencers in the manosphere. I know so many people whose sons just sit gaming and they say they are neurodivergent so 🤷‍♀️. Basically other groups; Asian, Indian have more ambition.

Schools have changed a lot on this in the last 15 years or so. "No child left behind".

When white boys are discriminated against:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66060490?app-referrer=deep-link

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/councils-discrimination-diversity-rules-recruitment-gt6vk89pf

Everyone is basing their theories on their own personal experience. You’re not getting any answers. They’re mostly contradicting each other.

IYKYK! 😄

This is a lie.

Sorry not read all replies but I thought a big part of this disparity was to do with geography. Don’t ethnic minorities tend to be in cities and urban areas more. I thought a lot of money was spent on bringing up schools in London which used to be behind but now are doing well. Obviously not the only factor.

Part of it must be the flip side of social mobility. Education is a big driver of upward mobility. So those who remain working class are descendants of those who haven't made the transition now over repeated generations. It's a different stock

DH and I different school encountered that attitude that because our parents had very working class jobs we couldn't shouldn't be academic. Thing is they didn't in 50/60 have same access to education as we did in 90s.

I found it worse though - less with our jobs - more assumption from schools/teachers because of areas we lived schools DS attended they couldn't be good students. (No bank of mum and Dad meant our options for housing were less than some of our uni peers who did have that support)

I think that's the downside of such thinking - it every soon means lower expectations or barriers to kids who are from such backgrounds.

Also DC secondary school decade ago when eldest joined had worked up to pretty good exams results - bad inspection and head and staff leaving and struggling to get any head - and now the reason so many do so badly in exams is the low social economic area despite fact last decade area social economic outlook actually improved. Same intake - poorer results hides behind social economic factors.

Poor kids generally go to less good schools - house price lottery - and have less access to external school resources that makes things harder for them.

Area I grew up in massively gentrified and poorer kids have moved away - DH area slower but now more a commuter belt for nearby towns. I think in many senses the problem can move on to new areas so it seems like it's been fixed - or it can't that is area with cheapest housing and it gets endemic partly through "stock" and partly though low expectations and not for the likes of us thinking.

whatever. cant be bothered to look for all the data. it was actually the economist, where i read something about the ‘left behind’ boys. feel free to call the guys at the economist liars..i have 0 skin in this game

It is a lie.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58485825

https://www.socialmobility.org.uk

https://www.crec.co.uk/hawwc-boys

https://www.suttontrust.com/news-opinion/all-news-opinion/changing-the-conversation-about-boys-and-young-working-class-men-in-education/

www.kcl.ac.uk/archive/news/kings/newsrecords/2016/07%20july/target-parents-and-primary-school-pupils-to-get-more-white-working-class-boys-into-university#:~:text=More%20information,%2C%20teachers%2C%20parents%20and%20carers.

guess you’ve never read an economist article :) but ok, you got me -its all lies.

What kind of values do you mean? To do with education...or more in the sense of wider cultural etc attitudes towards things?

What to people in education who are on here think the solution is?

Also "working class" covers a large number of attitudes, careers, income and ideology. A skilled tradesperson, a labourer, a call centre worker, someone disabled and unable to work, someone who has never worked?

I'm a history student, also interested in politics. To be completely honest I want to be an MP one day & this is one of the issues I've been thinking about as one that should be at the top of the list for politicians to address.

In what ways would you say education has become more female oriented?
I partly think it has. I also think though that arguably boys who acted up or disengaged would have got a rougher deal in the past, corporal punishment etc. The difference was they could leave at 14 and had more opportunities for trade/manual jobs.

That's good, but make sure that you conduct proper research. It's ok to get ideas from here, but as you know, not everyone is well informed, and some are very definitely out of date with educational practices.
Importantly: WWC boys aren't actually the group with poorest outcomes - that's the Roma, Gypsy and Traveller cohort.

The economist article you are referring to did not state that there are no diversity/access programmes for working class white boys.

Traveller & Roma communities were not included in the report that inspired the Spiked article because it’s a cultural norm to leave school at 14. Whereas WWCBs are going to go school and failing. So you’re not comparing like with like.

I didn't claim to.
I'm pointing out that there's a cohort with less successful outcomes.

This, because it would not be the truth.

There are cohorts with completely different cultures.

Wrong.

Many blue chip companies and the public sector have social economic background in their diversity targets with specific programmes to increase intakes from disadvantaged backgrounds.

Astonishingly through this same period there has been an increase in MC applicants cosplaying WC backgrounds because being advantaged in the job market 99% of the time isn’t enough. There is also regular whinging in the press every time one of these programmes gets coverage.

In education, perhaps you missed the recent outpouring of hysteria when the Royal Academy of Music reserved a whole five places out of five hundred for state school applicants (of low income families). There were many columns from tearful public school heads assuring us that they had many poverty stricken students (whilst not mentioning the music facilities in their schools).