Is Kier Starmer a liar?

[catspyjamas1]

Is Kier Starmer a liar - yes or no?

It's a simple question. I can't see this on the trending threads, so asking the question.

YABU: He reliant on civil servants to share information and is in the clear, he didn't know what he didn't know.
YANBU: He's the Prime Minister. Who happens to get briefings and knew.

The irony of the party of Johnson, Truss and Badenoch calling someone else a liar would be unbelievable if they had not shown themselves to be utterly shameless.

By asking a question?

How about "Should I go around telling everyone that this very dodgy man passed the security vetting when a newspaper has reported that he failed it?"

It might not be a direct lie in that he's saying something he 100% knows is untrue but it's a mixture of dishonesty and incompetence to say something you know might be untrue but have made no attempt to find out is true, and all your advisers have decided not to tell you the truth because they don't think you'd be good at handling difficult but obvious information.

But Labour is the party of men can become women.

And that's the biggest lie of them all.

That is because most of the tory mps would lie about this.

I'm not actually sure if Keir is lying about this but I really dont care if he is. At the time it was obviously believed that Mandleson was good with Trump and so his well documented low morals had to be lived with. After all someone had to be able to know and work effectively with Trump, and i doubt anyone who fit that bill was a 'morally upstanding ' person. I imagine it was a pragmatic decision where they held their noses.

The reason I dont care is that the things Mandleson are accused of are not about sexual exploitation of young girls but old fashioned greed. Obviously he needed to be fired when it came put but he was friends with Trump ( one of the main reason he was hired) so we should expect poor morals and bad behaviour to come along with that. He served his purpose and I think many other of Trumps friends would have been much worse.

Obviously Keir can't say all this , so if he did know has to lie about it. I dont want him to go, so I am ok with it if he is lying as i undestand the reason for hiring Mandleson at the time, whoever took the decision. I think there is a good chance Keir is not lying though and just didn't know.

Sure, but it's lots of other people as well.

Stella Creasy was being interviewed about him this weekend, ditto Douglas Alexander- neither sounded hugely enthused, esp Creasy. And they are the ones being wheeled out for the media round!

I am really surprised at you saying this PAT!

You think the British media made all this up?

Agree

Yeah, he is not charismatic, but after seeing what that can get you, I would rather have a boring leader like him. Its a shame to see that lying is something we are so ready to believe in politicians, although not surprising given recent times. I really dont see him as a liar though.

The previous ambassador, Karen Pierce, was doing well in the role. She was liked by Trump and the administration. There was absolutely no need to switch her out.

Stella C won't have been put up by the leadership for media - she's done that of her own self promoting back.

But there are people who are generally decent who are credited with handling Trump well e.g. Carney, Rutte

I find it a bit incredible that there was no one else in the whole establishment who could be found.

I think it is much more likely it was quid pro quo for supporting Starmer's leadership behind the scenes.

To be fair to Zarah Sultana, Starmer should have listened to her way back in December 2024 when she questioned Mandelson's appointment;

“The British public expect high-quality candidates for such a position, and due diligence must be carried out...

No
but he is a hypocrite; he is naive at best; and he absolutely isn’t up to the job…..
and his whinny voice grates me!

OH MY DAYS... Clavinova cheerleading for Zarah 😂

Um. I have dyslexia so prone to mixing up my spelling. Thanks so much for your valuable input.

Sorry just to be clear, I don't think Creasy in particular thought he was not charismatic, I think she thought he was not tellng the truth.

She kept saying warily "well he'll be giving an account of himself to the Commons", not exactly dying in a ditch over his probity.

Fair, but I'll bet it was sanctioned - it was a lengthy weekend politics panel, I'm sure someone signed it off.

Yup

I think his days are numbered, Angela Rayner & Andy Burnham are doing a deal to swoop in & get him out. He has lost the support of over half his MP's, there is no way back for him.

No - Mandelson was not 'friends with Trump and that's why he was hired'.

Trump didn't want him as ambassador. His team literally told him to go home and requested that they get Karen Pierce as the US ambassador instead. They only reluctantly agreed when Starmer refused to back down.

A lot of people who seem to be defending Starmer for not being honest seem to be prone to the odd porky pie themselves.