Is Kier Starmer a liar?

[catspyjamas1]

Is Kier Starmer a liar - yes or no?

It's a simple question. I can't see this on the trending threads, so asking the question.

YABU: He reliant on civil servants to share information and is in the clear, he didn't know what he didn't know.
YANBU: He's the Prime Minister. Who happens to get briefings and knew.

Burnham protected grooming gangs?

I think he made a significant error in appointing Mandelson before the vetting process had been concluded, and it's possible that the civil servants were getting the message that they needed to rubber stamp the decision.

I don't think he is lying about the fact that he wasn't told. The evidence from Olly Robins would appear to back this up, as it was reportedly his view that he wasn't legally allowed to share the vetting info. Though I can't actually believe that he wasn't at least allowed to share the fact that Mandelson had failed!

I think Starmer is genuine in his anger about what has happened and I genuinely don't believe that the problem is with his integrity or honesty - I haven't really seen any evidence of that. What I do see as a problem is a distinct absence of good political judgement. He made a poor decision to appoint Mandelson in the first place, and he has made a series of poor decisions in response to the unfolding situation.

I don't think it is in the national interest to have yet another PM at this time, and I don't really see that there is anyone waiting in the wings (Labour or otherwise) who would necessarily do a better job. I would prefer that our politicians could be allowed to focus on running the country rather than the constant political turmoil that we've seen, and of course, the associated media circus. But honestly, I think the momentum is against Starmer now, others are baying for his blood and he will struggle to survive.

Kemi goes whichever way the wind blows

Kinda like a temu version of Johnson.

Not sure there’s enough space for both her and Nige up Donald trumps backside for the both of them, but at least SKS isn’t trying to cram in there too.

I’m no fan of Sir Keir and there is no doubt that the appointment of Mandelson would
always have been questionable with regards to his history.

However it would not surprise me if this was kept in the wings in case the party wanted to oust him somehow.

unfortunately his inability to answer a single question asked, or answering it with the broken record answer he pulls out in every single occasion is getting his own party, oppositions parties and the electorate more than a little irritated.

So either he has no answers, he knew nothing about it and is lacking in any sort of efficiency OR he knows and lies is anyone’s guess.

Prior to being PM he had more of a backbone, although I applaud his stance on Trump and Iran.

@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack
I don't think it is in the national interest to have yet another PM at this time, and I don't really see that there is anyone waiting in the wings (Labour or otherwise) who would necessarily do a better job. I would prefer that our politicians could be allowed to focus on running the country rather than the constant political turmoil that we've seen, and of course, the associated media circus. But honestly, I think the momentum is against Starmer now, others are baying for his blood and he will struggle to survive.

absolutely agree with this, we have such a poor political offering on all sides at the moment, it’s actually depressing.

Doesn’t matter as he’s finished anyway. Probably best he hangs on for the moment as further instability is the last thing this country needs right now! He seems to be doing a good job on the foreign policy front so let’s leave him to it for now.

Remember Kemo was all for going to war with Trump and isn’t Farage a mate of Trump’s too?!

Personally I would have thought that any one with common sense would know Mandelson would fail his vetting, before he even filled in the paperwork! The point is, he was probably a good choice at the time as he was able to handle the orange baby better than anyone else, and that’s what the country needed back then.

I think KS held his nose and appointed Mandleson as he thought he knew where the 'bodies were buried' in Trumpland. It backfired spectacularly. Diane Abbot is correct that everyone already knew Mandy was dodgy (maybe not how dodgy). I don't think KS had all the evidence until recently. I don't think it's the right time to change PM.

No, Starmer has superseded her!

Anyone who knows anything about DV knows that there was never anyway someone with his past and proven lies would get clearance. Total waste of tax payers money even bothering. I can see why with Trump as president Mandleson made a good choice for ambassador, these are not normal times and the job of the prime minister is to put the nations (and therefore its citizens) interests first which clearly meant the best choice was to appoint someone highly problematic to liaise with an even more problematic. Rock and heard place springs to mind. Although, with the way it’s all panned out George Osborne (who was the alternative contender) would have probably been a better choice politically, but not as good at the job.

Totally agree
“Mandy “ was kicked out of the Labour Party twice for his dodgy deals years ago
he was a slimy prick then and nothing has changed
anyone of a reasonable age would remember that and know that he’s wasn’t called the “Prince of Darkness for nothing

at best KS is incompetent
at worse he’s a liar

personally I think it’s a lot of both

Also I don’t believe that KS wasn’t aware that “Mandy” was good friends with Epstein and stayed very very good friends after he was convicted back in 2009

if that isn’t a person with serious bad judgment then what is ..

”Mandy’s downfall I think has always has been his love of money - not much he won’t do to get some and if that means hanging out with a convicted sex abuser then that’s absolutely fine by him

Same for Sarah Ferguson & Andrew

What I am happy about is that Epstein has been able to fuck over so many people who thought they we’re untouchable - and he’s done that from the grave😂

only wish Victoria Guthrie was alive to see how right she was RIP VG

One didn’t need a vetting process to know that putting Mandelson in the role was a mistake. In that, Diane Abbott is spot on.

This. First time in my life I have ever agreed with Diane Abbott. I can't have been the only one to have said "WTF?" when the appointment was announced.....and the "To us he's just Peter" speech.

This too.

Thank you
Im just amazed that someone with KS supposed talents brains and ethics even thought that “Mandy “ was a good choice

he is either a liar incompetent or totally fucking stupid and arrogant to think that “Mandy “ would be pass security

to any of us around in the mid 90s early 2000s it was obvious to anyone who read any paper and followed the smallest bit of politcs that he was as dodgy as fuck

even Dale Boy Trotter had nothing on Teflon
“ Mandy “

his biggest mistakes was always thinking he was smarter and better than everyone else
but in both the cases where he was kicked out labour he left a trail of breadcrumbs behind so large anyone could follow it

he is just another arrogant male who thinks he is untouchable
he’s always hung out with the serious Uber wealthy because that’s what he wants but will never have that sort of wealth

I'm amazed that anyone thinks Starmer isn't lying. There are lost Amazonian tribes that know Mandleson's a wrong 'un.

I’m not the least bit political

don’t think I have ever voted

But even I know that “ Mandy “ was a wrong one - as my dear mother would say 😂

all the evidence that he is a conniving liar and excellent bullshiter is easy to find

sacked twice
hangs out with the worlds most famous abuser of women after they have been convicted

Im surprised that people actually believe that KS wasn’t aware
if not that he failed DV
but that he is a slimy 2 faced liar who had been sacked twice from the Labour Party

Ffs ….what is the matter with people! Have we learnt nothing from the disaster of the US. We have to hold leaders to account no matter which party they are from or which political party you support. It’s partisan “I’ll defend my side past all that’s reasonable” that has lead the US to the mess it is now and we seem to be following it.

Starmer (& many others) accepted a shit ton of gifts from a donor and didn’t declare them, got caught and lied. Rayner lied about her living arrangement to get out of paying tax Reeve’s lied in her CV. And Starmer appointed Mandleson knowing full well he was friends with Epstein way after he had been convicted and that he was dodgy as fuck. I have no idea why but he did. And now he’s lying to try and get away with it.

It doesn’t matter whether previous PM or politicians also lied and were dishonest- that does not give the current lot a free pass. It doesn’t matter if “we need stability” and it’s not the “right wing press” fault if they keep
finding out our ‘leaders’ have lied. It’s the leaders themselves who are problem and we should continue to demand they step down until finally we find someone who does not lie, who doesn’t have such spectacular poor judgment that they need to lie and make excuses. And i don’t care if we have to go through 20 PM or different parties to get there. If we don’t demand better - they will keep doing it and we wil never get honest competent leaders.

Ollie Robinson was presented with a fiat a compli by Starmer. His job was to put the necessary mitigations in place to protect the country from Mandelson which he did, and then told Starmer it was done.

Those were mitigations against Mandelson getting inside information and trading on it against our national interests. There were no mitigations against finding out Peter was mates with Epstein. That was already known by everyone and completely priced in.

The lie that Starmer is ensnared in is pretending not realise the extent to which PM and Epstien were friends. Starmer’s incredulity was disingenuous tripe that no one believed, and doubling down is what has caught him out.

Absolutely this!

All this we need stability right now, so Starmer stays on!

Low bar if this is what you call stability!

No one is questioning whether Mandelson failed the security vetting. No one is questioning whether Mandelson was a questionable and high risk appointment- he was after all known as "The Prince of Darkness ".

What is unclear is whether Sir Keir was informed Mandelson had failed the security vetting or not.

Sir Keir says that he was not and that the results were deliberately withheld from him. Unless there is a paper trial or evidence to the contrary then I don't know how anyone can prove that Sir Keir is lying.

It may be a simple question for you, but it's not a realistic question, as no politician is completely forthcoming.
Plus which, instead of looking for something on trending threads, why not go to the Politics forum, which is where this kind of question belongs?

I think you mean Olly Robbins.

And possibly a ‘fait accompli’?

@previouslyknownas in that case one has to question how seriously starmer himself takes those issues.

Interesting so another train of thought is that Keira panicking about trump inspire of perfectly capable other clean options put pressure on the security services to shoe horn him in ?

No. I think he's not a good people manager. Assumes too much of others and is too hands off.

Labour drop to 16% in a YouGov poll for the first time.

They've been this low in other polls but YouGov always had them a little higher.

Some estimates say 16% would equate to less than 20 MPs for Labour

https://x.com/i/status/2046454057611546884