SEN Child school options help!

[angelofmydreams1981]

Hi all,

I’d really appreciate some advice from those who’ve been through similar, as we’re feeling quite stuck.

Our daughter (Year 6) is autistic (currently going through the EHCP process, not finalised yet). She’s bright and has always been in mainstream, but masks heavily and has recently burnt out quite badly. She’s been off school for a few weeks but is planning to return to her prep school next week for the summer term - her decision.

The difficulty is Year 7 in September.

Her current school (independent prep feeding into senior) has already been too much for her in terms of pressure, expectations and lack of flexibility. They are not offering any adjustments from the start (e.g. later starts/reduced timetable), and we know that senior school will just be more of the same, if not harder. They’ve indicated there is no flex on timetable.

We do have an offer from another independent mainstream school. She did some taster days there and genuinely liked it. There are quite a few SEN children and the staff seem experienced and more understanding it’s also very small like 8 per class. It feels like a potentially “softer” environment.

However:

• She is very attached to her current school and friendship group
• She is currently saying that if she doesn’t go to the senior school with her friends, she won’t go to school at all
• She masks a lot and won’t ask for help, so we worry she’ll push herself wherever she is

The other school need a firm decision now for September, and if we accept we’re committing financially. If we decline, we lose the place as they have a waiting list.

EHCP won’t be resolved before September and I’m aware appeals etc could take a long time, so we can’t rely on that in the short term.

I suppose my questions are:

• Would you prioritise a potentially better-fit environment over friendships, given the burnout?
• Has anyone moved a child at this stage who was initially resistant and it worked out?
• Or stuck with the known school for friendships and regretted it I know that’s not an option.
• Any experience of SEN children coping better in a slightly less academic / more flexible independent setting?

I’m very conscious that a year out of school or refusal would be really difficult to come back from, so we do feel we need a workable option for September rather than waiting for the EHCP process to play out I know we’d have to appeal for the potential right setting.

Would really value any experiences or perspectives.

Thank you

Anyone?

Let her join her friends and stop mithering her re the diagnosis.

I confess I would go with the better fit.

I teach and have an autistic daughter who wasn't diagnosed till the end of secondary school - so never had an ehcp. Friendships may always be hard for her, but the smaller school may feel less overwhelming for her.

It isn't clear if you would change again to state perhaps after ehcp, or if you will have the new independent school named in the paperwork. Either way, it will be best for her if you agree what is best for her asap and stick it that.

Will the EHCP make a difference to the school your daughter attends?

Will you be trying to get a SEND specialist school named? Or mainstream? I mean will she actually be carrying on with the independent school in which case does it matter too much which one you go for in September if she will be moving once a school is named in the EHCP?

apologies if I’ve misunderstood the process.

You can get an independent school named but alternatively you can choose the independent school to be named and pay for the fee your self
in this case the op would pay the fees but they ehcp will pay for additional funds needed that section f requires.

if an independent school is named whether parents pay fees or not they would need fo have said they could meet needs so therefore are still bound by meeting the needs in the EHCP.

11 years olds are still children who do require adults input - we are still required to make important decisions for them - they are no way older enough to always understand the situation.
if your 11 year just decided they wanted to quit school would you be like oh yes your old enough now to make your own decisions in life.

If you are far enough into the EHC needs assessment that you have either a set of reports, or a Draft EHCP, it is probably worth making an appointment with each school SENCO and asking how the provision would be implemented, and what reasonable adjustments would be made. Then you can make a choice based on their willingness to support her. It's not easy to enforce section F of the EHCP (provision) on an independent school (for parents or the LA) as the LA have no influence and the school leadership can take the view that it's your choice for your child to attend and if you are unhappy, move the child.

This isn’t true - if an independent school agrees to be named on EHCP then they do also have to follow section F.
the real difference is that are under less obligation to say yes and be named on the ehcp and don’t have to meet therhroeshold of reasons not to accept being named as LA maintained schools.
my daughters ehcp had a fully non independent school named on it and the LA still interven when ehcp is not being met.

ok this might out me but...

I think your daughter is in a pretty vulnerable place and you have not yet really seen the full horror of a child in total deep burnout. Coming out of school now is actually like a shot across your bows. It can get a whole heap worse if the actual needs at school aren't met. Motivation to return happens more quickly than true capacity to deal with an environment where needs are not met. You may find that she doesn't make it through this summer term.

She will have rigid thinking and not be able to imagine being without her friends- however I think your gut feeling is right and she will not handle the strict non-sen-friendly secondary private. Yes, I would always put flexibility before academics for sen children - you can always pick up more academics later.

The challenge is that she is already in fight or flight burnout- she has not yet started the process of understanding herself and perhaps is still learning about her autism- and she will be driven by anxiety and rigidity of thinking. So you won't be able to just say "hey we have decided you are going to the other school".She will go full PDA and won't have the ability to handle it in her anxious state.

If she is masking so well and achieving academically to get into those schools she is likely dual exception, so she will be very bright but with some gaps in executive function and ability to handle social and emotional stuff.

So where does that leave you? I would ...

a) Get her an OT assessment asap as well as the autism diagnosis and start with OT as soon as possible. Or psychotherapy. Anything that gives you a bit of therapeutic space for her to start handling and processing. How did she get diagnosed, has she had therapeutic help, what is in place now?
b) You may already be low demand parenting. Get into as low demand space possible at home to allow her deep rest after school. This is all to stave off deeper burnout.
c) Be honest with the nice sen friendly secondary school. Say she is set on trying the other one but you think she is v likely to crash. could they work with you to see if they can meet need when ehcp is in draft with a view of being named as the parental preference school?
d) as the ehcp process goes along, get your own OT report to submit into it. Make sure section F is really thorough. Make sure it points towards the sen friendly school as it's likely it will be that one that is named in a year or so. They will start by naming a mainstream local state secondary maybe with an ARC, they won't name her other school if can't meet her needs. You will likely have to go to tribunal and if you apply TODAY your hearing date would be October 2027.... she is in school so they are unlikely to bring it forward. So assume she will start somewhere next autumn and then be there without any ehcp in place for a year before the hearing date.
e) How far along is the ehcp?? If it is nearly finalised will the non-friendly school even take her??? Can they actuslly meet needs? zmYou need to have a good talk with them as if the ehcp is in force by September or even Christmas and requires things and they can't meet them they will not allow her to start, and/or she will have a really crappy time. What practical things does she need and do you have any confidence they can deliver them?

ok this might out me but...

I think your daughter is in a pretty vulnerable place and you have not yet really seen the full horror of a child in total deep burnout. Coming out of school now is actually like a shot across your bows. It can get a whole heap worse if the actual needs at school aren't met. Motivation to return happens more quickly than true capacity to deal with an environment where needs are not met. You may find that she doesn't make it through this summer term.

She will have rigid thinking and not be able to imagine being without her friends- however I think your gut feeling is right and she will not handle the strict non-sen-friendly secondary private. Yes, I would always put flexibility before academics for sen children - you can always pick up more academics later.

The challenge is that she is already in fight or flight burnout- she has not yet started the process of understanding herself and perhaps is still learning about her autism- and she will be driven by anxiety and rigidity of thinking. So you won't be able to just say "hey we have decided you are going to the other school".She will go full PDA and won't have the ability to handle it in her anxious state.

If she is masking so well and achieving academically to get into those schools she is likely dual exception, so she will be very bright but with some gaps in executive function and ability to handle social and emotional stuff.

So where does that leave you? I would ...

a) Get her an OT assessment asap as well as the autism diagnosis and start with OT as soon as possible. Or psychotherapy. Anything that gives you a bit of therapeutic space for her to start handling and processing. How did she get diagnosed, has she had therapeutic help, what is in place now?
b) You may already be low demand parenting. Get into as low demand space possible at home to allow her deep rest after school. This is all to stave off deeper burnout.
c) Be honest with the nice sen friendly secondary school. Say she is set on trying the other one but you think she is v likely to crash. could they work with you to see if they can meet need when ehcp is in draft with a view of being named as the parental preference school?
d) as the ehcp process goes along, get your own OT report to submit into it. Make sure section F is really thorough. Make sure it points towards the sen friendly school as it's likely it will be that one that is named in a year or so. They will start by naming a mainstream local state secondary maybe with an ARC, they won't name her other school if can't meet her needs. You will likely have to go to tribunal and if you apply TODAY your hearing date would be October 2027.... she is in school so they are unlikely to bring it forward. So assume she will start somewhere next autumn and then be there without any ehcp in place for a year before the hearing date.
e) How far along is the ehcp?? If it is nearly finalised will the non-friendly school even take her??? Can they actuslly meet needs? zmYou need to have a good talk with them as if the ehcp is in force by September or even Christmas and requires things and they can't meet them they will not allow her to start, and/or she will have a really crappy time. What practical things does she need and do you have any confidence they can deliver them?

f) and finally, plan how you will talk to her. You might need some clear pictures and social stories - it isn't good for your health to push yourself somewhere you are not happy and so we are going to focus on finding you somewhere you will be happy. Lots of things will change in September and your friends won't be the only ones in the class. All the friendships will change and also x y and z happens at secondary school - more noise, more changes, harder work...whatever she finds more difficult. So everyone needs to think about what they need to be happy and relaxed in the new environment. We are looking at other schools that can maybe do a b and c better than the school you want. We agree that you can start at that school but if it is not the right one we will plan to move within the first year. Or whatever you decide. If she's autistic she will like having an input into the plan and understanding the underlying rationale.

I don’t think the current school is a feasible option moving through secondary.

Friendships change in secondary. I would be careful basing decisions on that.

Have you spoken to the other potential school? What transition support are they willing to offer?

What week of the EHCP process are you on?

What is your preferred placement to be named in the EHCP? Will either school agree to being named in the EHCP?

Wholly independent schools can be named in EHCPs and fully funded. The LA would have to take OP’s views and wishes into consideration, but OP would need to show the LA’s proposed school(s) can’t meet needs (if the LA proposed another school or schools) &/or it isn’t unreasonable public expenditure.

Where this threshold isn’t met (or where the LA says it isn’t met and parents don’t appeal), some LAs will sometimes come to an arrangement whereby parents pay the fees and the LA pay the special educational provision in F, but they don’t have to. They will often say parents are making suitable alternative arrangements thereby relieving them of their duty. Such arrangements are less common than they once were.

The LA is the one ultimately responsible for the provision in F.

It can sometimes be harder in wholly independent schools because a) the best endeavours duty doesn’t apply and b) they could give notice.

If the EHCP is finalised soon and you have to appeal, there will still be time for it to be classed as a phase transfer appeal and be expedited because of that.

I’m not saying that can’t I’m saying that paying the fees can be an alternative which means it would still be named.

I know what you were saying. I was pointing out where you said “pay for the fee your self in this case the op would pay the fees but they ehcp will pay for additional funds needed that section f requires” isn’t necessarily the case. Because, while some LAs will come to agreements where parents pay the fees and the LA funds the SEP, LAs don’t have to. They will often say parents are making suitable alternative arrangements thereby relieving them of their duty. Such arrangements are less common now than they were in the past.

I teach and have an autistic daughter who wasn't diagnosed till the end of secondary school - so never had an ehcp.

You don’t need a diagnosis to have an EHCP.

As an autistic person your DD is fearful of change and thinks that staying at the senior part of the school that her Prep is attached to will minimise change. Hopefully she is intelligent enough to understand this : it does not work like that. Her current friendship bonds are going to change, new pupils will start and the school will be actively discouraging the Prep based friendship groups from continuing because they will exclude the new starters. The alternative indie sounds much more suitable and sensible.

Sorry this is off topic - my dd sounds just like yours, including the same age diagnosis and presentation. Please could I ask how you have got an EHCP? We have just been turned down for a needs assessment.

I know you didn't ask me @dicentra365 but fwiw we got our own autism diagnosis, got our own OT report, by that time she had been put on the waiting list for CAMHS referral as intermittently out of school and poor mental health. (How she got put on the list is I badgered the doctor until they did so). We pulled together all the reports plus other things like physio referral for hypermobility and wrote the ENCHA request letter ourselves. There are only 2 legal tests they have to meet for a needs assessment. School did say they would support us but it was more because we asked than them pushing it.
Sounds like you have a diagnosis so you could do that?

Hello sorry coming back to answer some quns

our current independent is a very mainstream - academically selective award winning school - even in the current climate they really don’t have to bend over backwards to get their round pegs into their round holes. There is some support, eg uniform adaptations, there is pastoral support BUT there is no flex on timetable.

My daughter is musical and the NEW indie has a great music function, a high proportion of SEN kids, very small class sizes, children who are PDA, Autistic ..

I agree my daughter is vulnerable and her pushing herself back into school full time next week I don’t think is ideal the prep school school did agree to a soft start.

we’ve just had the EP assessment on Friday (at home as she’s ESBA).

I have had to accept the NEW Indie for Sept as they have a waiting list,

Our current Senior School that leads on from the prep is great but not for her level of SEN.

The new INdie - jsut seem to have that touch with SEN kids.

its likely I will pay fees and then the LA will send any additional support, they can’t support 1:1 we’ve had OT reports done and SaLT. I do not have any psycothepwt in place I was looking at a potential play therapist

The other school have said we can have as many taster days as we want and she’s already been in for 3 during her EBSA from the current prep and we will give more… I just need to persuade her around friendships

Appeal. Unfortunately, too many have to appeal. Just because the LA refused to assess doesn’t mean DD doesn’t meet the threshold for an EHCNA. LAs act unlawfully all the time. Consider what evidence you already have, what evidence you can get e.g. from SARs to school, the LA and any agency/professional involved, and if you need independent assessments.

What week of the EHCP process are you on? You have just had the EP assessment, but it is importantly to know the week you are on to make sure the LA is sticking to the timescales.

they can’t support 1:1

Do you mean the school won’t agree to be named in the EHCP if DD needs 1:1 or that they can’t provide 1:1 without an EHCP? Or do you mean the LA has said they don’t provide 1:1s? If the latter, the LA is not telling you the truth.

its likely I will pay fees and then the LA will send any additional support

What is your plan if the LA refuses to name and fund the school and refuse to come to an arrangement whereby you pay the fees and they fund the special educational provision? Can you afford to fund the support yourself while you appeal (or long term if you decide not to appeal)?

Other than the taster days, can the new school offer any support with transition, particularly around friendships?

I’ve made contact with a couple of families and we will arnahe get togethers …

yes I had to appeal when rejected

we can pay school fees

the new school said they can’t accommodate 1:1s so i think like a 1:1 TA situation

DD wants to go back full time to the prep she will not even look at a soft start