SEN Child school options help!

[angelofmydreams1981]

Hi all,

I’d really appreciate some advice from those who’ve been through similar, as we’re feeling quite stuck.

Our daughter (Year 6) is autistic (currently going through the EHCP process, not finalised yet). She’s bright and has always been in mainstream, but masks heavily and has recently burnt out quite badly. She’s been off school for a few weeks but is planning to return to her prep school next week for the summer term - her decision.

The difficulty is Year 7 in September.

Her current school (independent prep feeding into senior) has already been too much for her in terms of pressure, expectations and lack of flexibility. They are not offering any adjustments from the start (e.g. later starts/reduced timetable), and we know that senior school will just be more of the same, if not harder. They’ve indicated there is no flex on timetable.

We do have an offer from another independent mainstream school. She did some taster days there and genuinely liked it. There are quite a few SEN children and the staff seem experienced and more understanding it’s also very small like 8 per class. It feels like a potentially “softer” environment.

However:

• She is very attached to her current school and friendship group
• She is currently saying that if she doesn’t go to the senior school with her friends, she won’t go to school at all
• She masks a lot and won’t ask for help, so we worry she’ll push herself wherever she is

The other school need a firm decision now for September, and if we accept we’re committing financially. If we decline, we lose the place as they have a waiting list.

EHCP won’t be resolved before September and I’m aware appeals etc could take a long time, so we can’t rely on that in the short term.

I suppose my questions are:

• Would you prioritise a potentially better-fit environment over friendships, given the burnout?
• Has anyone moved a child at this stage who was initially resistant and it worked out?
• Or stuck with the known school for friendships and regretted it I know that’s not an option.
• Any experience of SEN children coping better in a slightly less academic / more flexible independent setting?

I’m very conscious that a year out of school or refusal would be really difficult to come back from, so we do feel we need a workable option for September rather than waiting for the EHCP process to play out I know we’d have to appeal for the potential right setting.

Would really value any experiences or perspectives.

Thank you

From the timings, OP has already successfully appealed refusal to assess. Now the LA has 10 weeks to inform her if they aren’t going to issue (this is the 18th May date) and 14 weeks to finalise if they are going to issue.

For EOTAS/EOTIS, OP would need evidence that it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school.

Just so you are aware, "A sensory circuit each morning delivered by a TA" could be delivered otherwise than in school. TAs and sensory circuits aren’t limited to schools. Although, the wording needs to be tighter, e.g. how long for and the qualifications/training/experience of the TA, so it is detailed, specified and quantified regardless of if there is a school to be attended or not.

Thanks @ChasingMoreSleepIve learned how to PM … feel a little in the thick of it at the moment thank you for your kind responses

My DS has SEN and has had 3 school moves (all at primary level). He is also quite inflexible and made friends at his first school but we had no choice and we just told him what was happening.
I would move her. Regarding accommodations, I'm not sure shorter days or flexible timing would be the only thing they can offer - does either school have spaces for down time, to avoid busy break times or lunch? Flexibility on homework or spaces to do it at school?
Also you may find that the original school says they can't meet her need once the EHCP is issued.

The problem with this is that the assumption is the other children will want to remain friends with their primary school friends once they go to secondary school. This rarely happens - it’s a whole new world, a whole new world, a different set of possible friends.
If you ask most adults, they’re not still close friends to people they went to primary school with.

@dicentra365 the LA turns down pretty much everyone at first unless a child has such obvious and profound additional needs that they don't think they can get away with it. This is a deliberate tactic to try to put people off and create friction to slow down the rate at which new children come into the EHCP system. You just need to persist. We were originally turned down for assessment in October 2024 and had a long battle of appeals and evidence gathering and eventually got the EHCP last week.

The legal threshold at which a child is entitled to have their needs assessed is that it is possible that they may have additional needs. This is a very low bar to meet and no child should actually ever be turned down for assessment if there is any reasonable basis for concern.

Thank you for your help. I have contacted the mediators today as looking at the letter again it seems that I can’t go to tribunal unless I’ve at least been in touch with a mediator to discuss the possibility of mediation, even if this is not the route that we take. They don’t make it easy!

The legal threshold at which a child is entitled to have their needs assessed is that it is possible that they may have additional needs.

Not quite. May have SEN is only one part. The legal test as set out in section 36(8) of the Children and Families Act 2014 is a) DC has or may have SEN, and b) it may be necessary for special educational provision to be made for DC in accordance with an EHCP.

They really don't. As we scramble over each boulder in the obstacle course they set up to prevent us from getting our kids the support they need, they really underestimate the power of parental love. Stick open.spotify.com/track/3AUzGXi5JCoDcg2MMbbbHJ "Ain't no Mountain High Enough" on repeat and power on through. The mediation thing is just a delaying tactic, there's nothing that can be said in mediatiom that takes away your child's right to have their needs assessed, and they know it, it's just more friction. Once needs are assessed it is possible that a legitimate outcome could be that those needs are possible to meet within the universal provision that is supposed to be available to all children without an EHCP but even then the door is open to demonstrate that if a child isn't thriving under those circumstances then clearly needs are not being met.

@CandyEnclosingInvisible thank you. Yes, an obstacle course is right! I think it does feel like a delaying tactic, as how can they possibly know it’s not needed when an assessment hasn’t taken place?

tbh I don't think this is a distinction that is fundamentally going to make a difference for the majority of people in this part of mn. If a child is burning out/mot coping/unable to attend school peoperly/unable to access education then by definition they may need an EHCP and the process to establish whether or not they do is with an EHCNA so there is no rational basis to decline to assess. The only people that the second part of the definition might exclude might be the SEN equivalent of the "worried well" ie kids who do present as neurodiverse or with other identifiable additional needs but who are coping well and thriving in mainstream education with only the universal adjustments that the school is able to provide without an EHCP - and very few parents are going to be seeking an EHCP just for shits and giggles if their child is coping well and thriving in mainstream education with only the universal adjustments that the school is able to provide without an EHCP.

It is important parents know the actual law even if their DC meets the threshold. Otherwise, they may build their case only on the fact that their DC may have SEN and think it is enough. This is especially important if, as the pp is, the parent is appealing and when it is usually the second part of the test LAs rely on to refuse to assess. There is a distinction between part a of the test and part b. Both need satisfying. Showing the LA you know the actual law also helps.

I am not saying the pp’s DC doesn’t meet the threshold. Just that it is important she knows the legal test that will be applied at appeal.

@ChasingMoreSleep fair enough, that make sense. Of course each of us is mostly closely familar with our own particular case (or cases if we have multiple DC with SEN) but in our case the LA's refusal to assess was ridiculous in claiming that the threshold wasn't met that DC may need an ECHP when we had a wealth of evidence of not coping without one.

Unfortunately, that isn’t uncommon. LAs regularly act unlawfully even in the face of overwhelming evidence. It is part of the reason why the FTT success rate is so high. It kicks the can down the road, some don’t appeal, and it saves the LA money in the short term. Despite all that, navigating the system is far easier if you know the law.

1 to 1 support is very unusual in secondary school. Usually the school pools the ehc funding and employs subject specific TAs. A 1 to 1 TA would mainly be for children with a disability like visual impairment. Otherwise a specialist environment might be more appropriate.

Imo for secondary you are best choosing the environment that your child will cope with and want to attend. There is only so much you can do with additional support. Most kids don't want to stick out.

So i would go for the new school, which will be inherently better suited to your daughter.

Tbh all you can do is try and see how it goes and revisit if it doesn't work out. I know several academically able autistic girls whose parents were very bullish about how they would cope in secondary, with catastrophic results by half term, leading to school refusal, nervous breakdowns and a long period of being at home before more appropriate schooling was set up.

This is good advice.

Facebook groups are full of people saying ‘demand a 1:1’ when (a) this is neither practical nor possible with even top up funding and (b) the vast, vast majority of SEND children don’t want to be trailed around by a 1:1.

Most autistic children in my setting do well with some accommodations. A handful cannot cope without an adult to help them regulate and manage the school environment/other children, and usually end up moving to a specialist autism school (if they can get a place). The occasional child cannot cope with school at all and might need an EOTAS package.

I put my DD in the school that was going to be right away from her friends etc and she thrived. Small class sizes, single sex. I’d do the school that works best for her.

I’m not saying she needs a 1:1 seems to have derailed the thread slightly … she’s ‘coped’ in a mainstream prep up until now… I say ‘coped’ clearly she’s been off the last 7 weeks.

I do think in a smaller less pressurised environment she would cope better - she has a really solid group of friends who are all so so lovely however granted many of them will not go to the Senior School (cost is so prohibitive for families now).

However it’s an academic school, she is able but with adjustments they are telling me there is zero flex on timetable. Eg if I could give her a later start and she could miss assembly etc, or perhaps she can skip certain lessons. I’ve been told No.

I know the school well it’s very good school I also know there are several autistic kids there my concern is wit my DDs level of anxiety if it’s the right place,

I’m not saying OP’s DD needs 1:1, but 1:1 for some or all of the time isn’t as unusual at secondary as LAs and some schools would like people to believe. They aren’t only for DC who have disabilities like VI either. If 1:1 is detailed, specified and quantified in F, it must be provided. Whether it can be different staff for different subjects depends on the wording in F rather than what the school typically does.

Parents should focus on the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F rather than the funding. That provision is enforceable. LAs are ultimately responsible. This duty is absolute and, as they have been shown time and again, lack of funding, resources or staffing is not a lawful excuse for failure to provide it.

Yes my daughter had a fully funded 1-1 for secondary school it’s not unheard of.’

Of course so much depends on what the chosen school offers. My younger daughter went to a specialist speech and language school with small classes, on site OT and SALT, sensory rooms etc. So she didn't need a 1 to 1 TA in that scenario. But if she had gone to our local comprehensive, she might have needed a 1 to 1 TA - but that wouldn't have been the right setting for her.

The issue the OP has is that she wants a non sen independent school for secondary and the LA might well feel that the child's needs could be met in a mainstream with subject specific TAs. And they may be right.

Independent schools often have limited sen facilities, experience, willingness to compromise etc and in that sort scenario you might well need a 1 to 1, but is this the best option for the child?

My point is that I think parents are better to identify the environment that will work best overall, looking at what child-specific sen support will be required on top.

Some children are in schools with 1 to 1 TAs because these schools are not set up for sen and there might be better alternatives. I still say it is unusual to have a 1 to 1 TA in secondary as most children with that level of need will go to specialist provision.

Of course so much depends on what the chosen school offers.

Not in relation to the point I was making, it doesn’t. You said “Usually the school pools the ehc funding and employs subject specific TAs.” I was pointing out the provision in EHCPs must be provided regardless of what the school typically does or wants to do. If 1:1 is detailed, specified and quantified, it must be provided even if the school (the discussions about 1:1s was in general, not a specific school or type of school) doesn’t typically provide it &/or doesn't want to provide it. If the wording does not allow for several different subject specific 1:1s to be used e.g. because the wording mandates it must be a consistent dedicated TA or a group of 2 or 3 consistent, dedicated TAs then the school must not provide a different subject specialist 1:1 for each subject even if that is what they usually do or want to do.

If the LA doesn’t name OP’s preferred placement, she could appeal.

1:1 in secondary for some or all of the time isn’t as unusual as you seem to think.

I understand that but I do think that in the move towards secondary, or secondary to post 16, what it says in the plan is subject to agreement on the school that is eventually named. Parents are often considering several options, with different levels of support. Often parents and the LA use a degree of pragmatism in writing up the ehc to support the placement - there is no point in sticking hard to 1 to 1 support if no one wants it.

In this case, the OP IS doing the pragmatic thing rather than blindly following what the ehc says.

I expect the ehc will be written to support what she wants in terms of either of these two schools.

Btw I live in a part of the country with a lot of specialist provision - maybe that is why my experience is that 1 to 1 TAs are unusual at secondary. Both my daughters went to 2 separate specialist secondary schools.

what it says in the plan is subject to agreement on the school that is eventually named

That depends entirely on the school type. The discussion about 1:1s had widened to more general talk and not just in relation to the OP looking at wholly independent, it isn’t true in all cases. You only need agreement from wholly independent schools, which it had already covered on the thread can only be named if they agree. Non-wholly independent schools can be named even if they object.

there is no point in sticking hard to 1 to 1 support if no one wants it.

No-one has said that. Looking at OP’s situation specifically, if you read the thread, no-one has even said OP’s DC needs 1:1. Looking more generally, no-one has said that either.

In this case, the OP IS doing the pragmatic thing rather than blindly following what the ehc says.

OP doesn’t have an EHCP yet. She doesn’t even know if the LA will issue, yet alone know what the EHCP says.

In all LAs, 1:1 in secondary isn’t as unusual as LAs and some schools like people to think.

Hello, just thought I’d pop by with an update thank you to @ChasingMoreSleepfor your advice and everyone else.

DD had her first day back, and we already had difficulties in the evening, but the difference being she is communicating albeit a little distressed but she’s telling me - my issue is the school just don’t see it and I’m handling the fall out. Two examples - assembly today that she thought she had to be part of in a different tshirt - I mean WHY?! I’ve said to the school no extras, nothing please let’s get the day to day done, next - homework - ffs - write your summer goals! Once again for a demand avoidant child, with anxiety who internalises poor thing was stressing and I had to say let’s leave it it doesn’t matter for now. The good thing is she now trusts me to say I’ll let the teachers know.

to me it is environmental - now I know the demands of the Senior School, my older child is there and it’s full on. So I know it’s not the right environment.

the other Independent has several children with autism, adhd and even PDA. Small class sizes, DD is musical and it has a great music offering. The dep head there said things that were affecting children just stop affecting them there - because the environment is different. She’s sociable and the hard part for her is leaving something she knows and friends. I’m setting up play dates with a couple of kids from the new school and I’m hoping over time she can accept the move. Otherwise we are a bit stuck!

I don’t even know yet the LA will issue an EHCP, we are in assessment phase. I had our refusal to assess over turned and we’ve had the EP visit. I think it’ll go to panel end of this month.