To think that children with special needs should be included in mainstream schools where ever possible

[ReallyTired]

Before I get really stoned, I do work in a special school and I know and I know quite a few children with special needs. The school I work at is very good and the kids make fanastic progress.

I think its right that there are some special schools, for children who really cannot cope socially or academically with mainstream. Even then I think children at special schools/ special units should mix with mainstream children as much as possible.
However I think its a mistake to think that special schools are a pancera for everything wrong in state state education.

Children who attend special schools often spend quite a long time travelling to school. Their course choices at keystage 4 are often limited because a special school is very small. The very small number of children can make it hard to find a good friend. Especially for girls who are often out numbered by boys.

I think that for inclusion to work there has to be more than just extra funding. Secondary schools need to be smaller. Somehow schools need to achieve a more human scale, prehaps by splitting larger secondary schools into smaller units. Maybe we should have middle schools like Bedfordshire.

There are children like young carers or children in local authority care who get forgotten about. When you get to know an individual child you realise that they aren't a monster, in fact they are just like your child. Inclusion needs money and resources to work well.

I think it's fine as long as the child can cope with mainstream school.

I thought inclusion was always the first option for children with special needs?

Fine if the LEA are willing to put the support and finances into that school for the SN child!
My DS has suspected ASD, he has ODD and severe behavioural/emotional and anxiety problems. He has been kicked out of 2 MS schools and is now spending his time in a Pupil Referral Unit until a school can be found for him. 18 more primary schools (MS) have been contacted about taking DS but because of his difficulties and the amount of disruption he can cause they have refused to take him, He has a 32.5 hour statement with and enhanced package and STILL MS are unable to meet his needs. As his parents we are pushing for a specialist school BUT in our county there are NONE available to him. Inclusion is all well and good but my son NEEDS a specialist unit with small groups and trained staff and that simply isnt available in MS.
Because of this INCLUSION policy im having to fight tooth and nail and risk losing my home to get the school that would be best for my DS.

Very interesting post. I may not agree with it all but am I not going to be getting my pitchfork out .

As well as money and resources, there is the human factor - teachers and TAs who are proud to work with kids with SN rather than just hoping the issue will go away.

sorry wrong login

are you sure you arent a goverment minister?

agree with persil/ totalchaos here! I would love my son with mild - moderate CP to be mainstream, but I have looked and looked and looked but I haven't seen any schools that I feel have the experience to deal with the additional needs he has. As a result we have decided to go for a mainstream school with a unit and just hope that he is one of the 7 children in the LEA to get a place next year. His needs are not severe but I feel that unless he has he support in the first few years he will never have a chance to be mainstream and independent at secondary school.

I agree but only if they can cope with it all and there is adequate funding & support. And specialised support where it's needed ie. a willingness to invest money in training TAs
(speaking from experience as a TA who had to BEG the school pay for a dyslexia qualification - that I am having to do all in my own time )

I suppose what I wanted to say is special schools are not a panacea but we do need more of them and more units where there can be greater integration. Forcing SN children into mainstream can be really detrimental to them as they can sink never to recover.

In my case the LEA want DS in MS BUT big issue with MS is that DS disrupts it too much even with full time support, he just cannot cope. Currently on a ratio of 1-1 in a class of 4 pupils and he STILL struggles!

He is my DS and i love him BUT i cannot let his problems disrupt and ruin other childrens education! He needs to be somewhere he is not labelled as naughty and treated as if he is different.

I agree with you. On everything really

My dd2 was in special nursery before starting m/s primary... the special nursery really wasn't a good place for her for a variety of reasons, yet the special school was so very arsey about me moving her to m/s - she is now at the end of year 2 and has absolutely blossomed in mainstream. The school are so very proud of her. Her headteacher said that on a crappy day, looking at dd2 makes it all worthwhile for her. She is treated far more as an individual than she ever was at the special school.

But secondary school does worry me a lot. Our catchment school (that dd2's siblings will be going to) is outstanding, but absolutely enormous, and the thought of dd2 in a school of 1600 youngsters is pretty terrifying.

Tell that to the snobs running the school we're attached to.

They just don't want to know.

I've taken legal advise because they seem to be in 1960 when it comes to disabilities and the rights of the disabled.

I'd rather DD1 went to the school attached to where she goes to nursery, as there seem to be people there who don't have this attitude neither she nor anyone else really needs.

I agree ReallyTired

I am fortunate in that ds2 does go to mainstream school and there have been hardly any issues i have had need to push for

Inclusion for children with sn who can attend a ms school is beneficial to everyone. Years ago children with sn were just not seen, and that is why people from certain generations now feel uncomfortable when faced with someone not nt, as they can only focus on the disability and not the person, which unsettles them

Inclusion means people will just see the child as a child, and this fear, if you like, of how to speak to or behave with sn people will slowly disappear. It is partly why ds2 started nursery at 2, because i wanted him to grow up with a group of friends , who went through school with him, and just see him as their mate. So far it has worked.

Like i say funding for ds2 has been great where i live, with a few hiccups, but i say everytime, if the government want inclusion for sn children, then they have to put their hand in their pocket and make it happen

No, they can't stop them, riven. But they can certainly let you know how they feel about it.

And my kid doesn't really need to be 'educated' by people like that, anyhow.

In fact, no one does.

I haven't read through the whole post but we are going through finding a secondary school for ds in September as we speak. I want him in mainstream but some say he won't cope.

Well, I went to see a special school the otherday and NO WAY is he going there. He has behavioural special needs and not educational (learning) special needs. He is definately going mainstream and I will back him all the way through.

I would never send my son to mainstream again.

You can't teach understanding to the staff unfortunately.

He is far more included in the community in the SLD/PMDL school than he ever was in mainstream where he was the freak show.

It depends on the specific needs of the individual child, surely? I've seen an awful lot of threads on here from parents of kids with SN who are having a terrible time in mainstream schools where their needs aren't even acknowledged, much less understood or catered for. The widespread closure of special schools has been a disaster for some children.

But I agree, where mainstreaming is possible and is properly resourced, it can be a good thing. IF the school is supportive. Even back in the days when I was little, I had friends with SN at ordinary schools - some with obvious physical disabilities, some with 'hidden' disabilities and some with behavioural difficulties. As far as I can remember they were all fine. I don't think any of them had what you might call severe needs, though.

'IF the school is supportive. '

and that's the rub entirely.

my child has learning disabilities but much of her SN is physical.

i won't send her to an unsupportive school, and if i have to get that point across by using the law then i have no problem doing so.

Depends on the child and what their parents feel is best for them IMO. My friend has a DD with severe CP - she fought hard to get her into a really good SN school (out of borough) where she feels her DD really gets the attention and physio she needs.

My nephew who has AS goes to MS - it's right for him and my sister is very pleased with the support he gets.

Yes. My DC are learning to understand and accept difference because the school is striving to be inclusive. There is also a higher staff to pupil ratio because of this. It can only be a win, win, win situation for all surely?