To think that children with special needs should be included in mainstream schools where ever possible

[ReallyTired]

Before I get really stoned, I do work in a special school and I know and I know quite a few children with special needs. The school I work at is very good and the kids make fanastic progress.

I think its right that there are some special schools, for children who really cannot cope socially or academically with mainstream. Even then I think children at special schools/ special units should mix with mainstream children as much as possible.
However I think its a mistake to think that special schools are a pancera for everything wrong in state state education.

Children who attend special schools often spend quite a long time travelling to school. Their course choices at keystage 4 are often limited because a special school is very small. The very small number of children can make it hard to find a good friend. Especially for girls who are often out numbered by boys.

I think that for inclusion to work there has to be more than just extra funding. Secondary schools need to be smaller. Somehow schools need to achieve a more human scale, prehaps by splitting larger secondary schools into smaller units. Maybe we should have middle schools like Bedfordshire.

There are children like young carers or children in local authority care who get forgotten about. When you get to know an individual child you realise that they aren't a monster, in fact they are just like your child. Inclusion needs money and resources to work well.

I think that all schools should be inclusive but it is essential to have proper funding. With the best will in the world the teacher can't cope on her own, they need extra adults in the classroom.

My son is at a special school and anyone who would want him to go to mainstream would have to climb over me first.
He is happy. he gets the teaching and support he needs. he is with his peers of whom he is very fond .
It is obvious that some parents want mainstream.It is obvious that some kids, with the right support should be in MS. It is also obvious that some special schools are better than other - one of the two that we visited was so terrible my husand left in tears. But many parents do not want inclusive mainstream ed for their child - I do not.
It is my job to make sure my child is happy and in an education system designed to meet his needs.That require a special enviroment and appropriate, highly specailised teaching.
His needs should come first.

It is not his job to teach mainstream kids to be around and tolerate kids with SN.
Their parents should do that. They can do that when they meet him at the shops or at the park. Certainly his siblings friends do that when they come here.
My Ds1 and his friends helping at the local disability play scheme also get to know him and his peers there.
Integration is fine, it is fabulous- but the needs of the child in question should always be put before political doctrine. And the goverment should stop being prescriptive about what is best for SN children and start providing support for them as individuals who do not have generic needs.

My son is at a special school and anyone who would want him to go to mainstream would have to climb over me first.
He is happy. he gets the teaching and support he needs. he is with his peers of whom he is very fond .
It is obvious that some parents want mainstream.It is obvious that some kids, with the right support should be in MS. It is also obvious that some special schools are better than other - one of the two that we visited was so terrible my husand left in tears. But many parents do not want inclusive mainstream ed for their child - I do not.
It is my job to make sure my child is happy and in an education system designed to meet his needs.That require a special enviroment and appropriate, highly specailised teaching.
His needs should come first.

It is not his job to teach mainstream kids to be around and tolerate kids with SN.
Their parents should do that. They can do that when they meet him at the shops or at the park. Certainly his siblings friends do that when they come here.
My Ds1 and his friends helping at the local disability play scheme also get to know him and his peers there.
Integration is fine, it is fabulous- but the needs of the child in question should always be put before political doctrine. And the goverment should stop being prescriptive about what is best for SN children and start providing support for them as individuals who do not have generic needs.

included = abandonded, imho

Special schools are in short supply and the "inclusion" policy is a joke. Its just an excuse for the LEA to stick to a policy and leave a child at the lowest common denominator.

I would rather pull my teeth out than send my dd to mainstream instead of her place at an ASD school.

sorry
my computer is sticking.
i am not really ranting and repeating myself...

There is a child with DOwns Syndrome in each of the classes in ds2's year. They have full teaching support and whilst they are much fussed over in school (lots of girls take it upon themselves to help them) one of the mothers was saying her DS son never gets invited to a single boy's b'day party. (And obviously I'm as guilty as any other mother here)

I wondered if they'd have made more friends in a special school?

DullWitch - why don't you, and others, invite the children who have DS to parties????????

It's a shame parents can't get the honest truth from schools. My school is imo v gd with Aspergers, hearing impairment and bright boys displaying EBD but poor at dealing academically struggling, those with poor organisational skills or dyslexia but locally another school has an excellent language support unit.

Each school I've worked in has been like that, strengths in some areas and weaknesses in another. It's like a 'secret' and parents who are tuned in get to hear about it.

I know that is a good point. I suppose I just invited the children ds2 asked to come. Which is about 8 out of 15 boys in his class. It never struck to go out of my way to invite a child he didn't ask or isn't friends with because he has a disability. And I don't know the boy's mother as she has an au pair who always picks up so we have never chatted.

imho I think schools should be for all - lessons can be in groups according to need but for other activities lets have all kids together

So although these boys are fussed over not one single mum or child has ever asked them to a party? What year are they in?

I hope people aren't scared of asking them for any particular reason.

DullWitch, maybe it would be really nice of you to invite one of them next time

you will make one Mum very very happy and probably her child also

And btw - yes absolutley, I think where possible and suitable that children with SN's should be included, in schools, in life.

My DD has Down's syndrome. She goes to a mainstream school. It works brilliantly for her. It is recommended that people with DS are inc in mainstream schools.

I think that until secondary level Lottie is going to do very well in mainstream school. After that I'll look at a more specialed school for her.

Dullwitch - no, don't ask him just becasue he has a disability. Ask him because you think he'd enjoy it, your DC want him there, not only because he has Down's syndrome.

I think perhaps lower down the school they were invited more. I can't speak for the girls in this. Maybe they were invited to parties by the girls who act as unofficial carers in the playground. But the boys are quite a rufty-tufty lot - and are ending year 5 now. They are kind and tolerant, but I suppose - since they don't play with this boy at football etc in the playground ? they don't think to invite him to parties.

But as I said, I think this is compounded by fact boy's mother works full time, so I've only spoken to her once or twice. If we d become friends, I might have suggested to ds2 we invite this boy.

well my dd is in a lovely sn school. she is severely disabled and in a wheel chair. we never wanted her to go to mainstream. no way was she going to be a learning tool for nt kids. poor little 2shoe's. I read loads of posts about dc's with sn in mainstream who have no freinds. and as for parties.
dd has loads of freinds and has been to loads of parties.
she has been to hindleap warren(wow you should have seen her on the zip wire) her school is brilliant. no ms could ever compare.
funny how people who are so keen to get their dc's with sn in mainstream then have to battle endlesly for everything.
what I would like to see is links wbetween ms and sn schools. but to me inclusion really means exclusion.

There is a girl with cerebral palsy at our school too who has heaps of friends and I'm guessing is not short of party invites.

Is it a boy's thing? Is it because we are less able to work out how to include a child with a mental disability rather than a physical one?

Children with Special Needs are just like any other child. Every child (SN and NT) is different, has different physical attributes and educational abilities. The LEA shouldn't be looking at what a child can't do, but what they can do and find the best place for them. I work in a SLD/PMDL school and the range of academic and social abilities is staggering, but I could say the same of my DDs P.S.

It's the environment as well. DS1's school is safe for him. That means high door handles, locks, big fences around the school property. It means he has been able to be taught things like going to fetch the register alone- he couldn't be taught that at mainstream because he would have run out the open front door.

HIs school has facilities that he really benefits from (sand and splash, hydro, sensory room, dark room, soft play, ball pools) - a masintream school might manage a sensory room, but a maths lesson in sand and splash??? No way.

I agree with everything that pagwatch and 2shoes have said. DS1 in mainstream was totally excluded. He was not allowed near other children, he didn't go to school assemblies, he wasn't allowed on school trips and he wasn't allowed in class lessons. What was the point? At special he goes out into the community every week, he learns things that we need him to learn (road safety has been worked on this term, eating in cafes comes up a lot- this is stuff that translates back for us).

In mainstream he was always compared to normal and always found wanting. His annual review report in mainstream described an animal rather than a child I recognised. Now his many successes are celebrated and his annual review this week reflected that. They talked about how bright he is for example.

Every child is different but I will never allow my child in mainstream again. Been there, done that and he's not going be put through it again.

I think each situation needs to be assessed in what is best for the SN child and all the other children. I would hope that a mainstream school could achieve this with the right resources and funding but I know in practice this isn't always possible. We have a boy with SN in ds1/ds2 mixed yr2/3 class. His Special needs are severe but as yet noone really knows what they are. Socially he has done really well, he is well loved by the other children and seems happy but recently I have noticed his behaviour is becoming a real problem. He is extremely disruptive, like a young toddler trapped in the body of a much bigger boy. Academically he's achieved nothing at all, he can't write, draw anything, read a letter or even sit for 5 minutes on the carpet. He has started to notice that he doesn't read to TA's and constantly questions why, the other dc's have started to say...ooooooohhhh xxxx, you;ve done whatever. the further they get up the school the more marked the differences are and I totally blame the school. I know the mother who is trying hard to get him statemented feels like she is bashing her head against a brick wall. The school and the LEA are letting him down. He now needs to be in an environment where there are specialists to help him achieve his potential. This boy is a sweetheart and it makes me extremely sad that his needs seem to be constantly ignored.

I have to say I have found it is the parents that are the problem not the children. dd has made freinds with some lovely girls. they have been the sisters of ds's freinds. the girls have seen past her disability and enjoyed being with her.(even ds's 15yr old gf is like this) but the parents never seem to see past the disibility. so when the child has a party no invite for dd(but one for ds)
imagine that in school no thanks.

I think you're right 2shoes..
I'm ashamed to admit that includes me. I didn't include this child last time (or 1/2 of the class btw) because we were going out and I was frightened he wouldn't listen and I couldn't control him near roads

ingles- your message reminded me of ds1 at mainstream. At ms ds1 didn't manage more than 30 seconds (literally) in assembly. Within a year at special school he was doing, taking part in and enjoying watching hour long assemblies.

One example from many. He just achieves all the time at school now in a way he never could at mainstream. The main thing that needed altering was the environment. In a class of 6 or 7 he can learn, in a class of 30 he couldn't even function, let alone learn.