to wonder why childcare seems to default to women, even now?

[saynooo]

When people talk about help with their children, it is almost always their mum or mother in law or another woman stepping in. School pickups, last minute childcare, sleepovers, even just popping round for a couple of hours. It is very rarely dad, father in law, or grandad being the go to person.

What I find odd is that this happens even when the dad or grandfather is literally there and available. It is not like they are nowhere to be seen. They might be in the same house, or just as free, but people still seem to default to asking the woman first. It is not always the case that they are working.

Almost like people do not even think to ask the dad, FIL, grandad. Easier just to dump it on the nearest woman.

NOT SAYING THIS IS TRUE IN EVERY CASE.

I think it starts with maternity leave. Me and my OH did shared parental leave together for the first 6 months and although I breastfed both of our children until they were 13/14mo I wasn’t the default parent. Now my OH doesn’t work and I do - I suspect that wouldn’t have happened if he’d had the standard 2 weeks paternity leave. I think it all starts there.

Insightful. Not the case in our house.

I tend to think that it’s not that they’re “dodgy”, it’s that women don’t trust them to be competent. Because they aren’t.
Men with serious jobs display zero common sense when it comes to children. If you say “can you dress the toddler please” and then have to field 6 questions about where things are and they still dress the kid for a winter walk in shorts hen you might as well have done it yourself. If every time you go out you have to answer 4 phone calls asking what they’re supposed to feed the kids then you tend to go out less.
Some of them are actually incompetent, some of them are lazy and I swear some of them are useless on purpose. And some of them are capable of being useful but then expect a medal and a parade because they managed to look after their own child.

Because feminism and equality can't erase biological instincts.

I do ask my dad and he happily babysat my DS and other grandkids without mum, BUT I would say he's just a bit worse at caring for small DC than my mum.

DM was the primary caregiver at home for 10 years when my siblings and I were small, and was a primary teacher for decades. She's brilliant at keeping young kids busy and spotting when they need something etc. My dad is just less knowledgeable about what is typical for young DC. However he's been brilliant with the older kids, especially the sporty ones, volunteers to go along to watch matches, takes them on various outings etc.

Because babies come from the woman’s body. She ‘produced’ them, takes the maternity leave and in most cases feeds them exclusively, and it all flows from there - the ‘handover’ where it is no longer one sided, usually when she goes back to work, never happens because at that point the baby prefers mum, mum knows how to soothe them and why they’re distressed, their likes and dislikes etc, and has undergone a series of physical changes to attune her to the baby’s needs. No mum is going to ‘make the baby suffer’ and listen to them crying ‘mummmmmmy’ just to prove a point or enforce this handover, and one set of tasks rolls into another. Until they’re 7/8 and mum is still the go to person

I want to organise it myself- for my own peace of mind.

Why are women on mumsnet complaining everyday that they are exhausted and their partners do not help if they are so happy with babies and young chdilren?

Why have more than one if he showed his true colours?

There are several African tribes where the men and women 'share' childcare in a very full way. So the bond just being with the mother is not a biological imperative. However, it's how our society nurtures men and what it encourages both men and women to think about division of labour and roles.

Doesn't someone on this forum have something more interesting to discuss? The wave of angry mothers and angry grandmothers complaining about the other and lack / expectation of support these past few days is bloody dull

At my daughters school I’ve been there a handful of times this year cus my husband does all drops and pick ups - seems an even amount of dads picking up there he says 🤷‍♀️

daughters 5th bday party it was nearly all dads who brought the kids along

my dad takes the kids for me loads as well!

so im certainly not seeing this in area I live or within my circle op !

Just ignore them then. What is the point of posting saying how dull they are?

The child will look for the mother first, oftentimes. Not sure you can program that out of them?

Well for us, our dads didn’t do the childcare when we were kids so it would be very surprising if they accepted it 40 years later.

I think the next generation will be different.

So that explains why more grandmothers and MILs do the care rather than grandfathers and FILs?

Great explanation 👏

Well, I think it’s because it’s women who make themselves available to do it. Lots of women work part time or not at all when their children are little. I worked part time or full time compressed hours - actually what that meant is Dh did everything 3 days a week because I was gone before the dc woke up and not back until bathtime, but I was the one who had 1-2 days off a week to take them to groups as a result. Dh’s effort wasn’t quite as visible. Fwiw, my part time working was less about being the default carer and more because the NIHR research funding that funded by role couldn’t afford me 5 days a week.

In our current set up, I am off work due to chronic illness. I don’t work. Dh is the breadwinner. By default, I do most the the school runs, etc because Dh has to work because I can’t. He still does school runs though and he’s done a half day with the dc every day all school holidays to give me a chance to rest. He does about half the driving around to activities and friends houses. He only really works PT though (we have a family business and are co-directors, dh involved in day to day running but it doesn’t take 40 hours a week to keep it ticking over).

Our mums don’t provide any childcare or help with dc really at all. Our dads are dead, didn’t live long enough to see grandchildren so they also are no help.

Amongst the mums I know who seem to run around doing it all, it appears to be a conscious choice because they wanted to step away from work when dc were little. And now they have struggled to get back into work because they didn’t build family life that way. Whereas Dh and I always had careers (until I got ill) and no family help, so our family life has been built around us sharing the load and doing everything between us.

If they didn't do it the first time round then they definitely deserve not to do it a second time round. They should enjoy their retirement.

Meanwhile - women bring up your own children and help again with grandchildren. You don't deserve a break. Only the men do.

Wrong. You need to get better men in your life

@saynooo

I should have said mother/ another known female equivalent. Not saying it's right, but I think it seems to occur instinctively?

Well actually the grandmas are firmly in the “it’s our time now” camp, so you don’t need to worry about them.

in the current generation of parents and marriages, it’s all pretty equal and the men and much more present as parents.

the grandads, rightly or wrongly, are almost wary of the grandkids, especially when they were younger.

i will say that during babyhood, I don’t know any woman who was willing to give up her maternity for shared parental leave.

after that, it’s very much down to practicality. Lots of dads on the school run etc and balancing annual leave entitlements in the holidays.

i find incompetency very unattractive in a partner. Wouldn’t have entertained it.

I agree. Men have historically got away with being lazy, especially as we’ve moved away from the housewife/breadwinner set up. Now we must adjust to our reality and lots of families are. I think in time it’ll become completely unacceptable for a man to live like he’s in the 60s whilst his wife is doing both.

in the current generation of parents and marriages, it’s all pretty equal and the men and much more present as parents - are you new to mumsnet?

But most people who are on MN come to complain. Do you think someone would come and post ‘my DH just dropped off the kids after he got them ready for school. Last night he made dinner and the kitchen wasn’t a disaster’?

Yes they do. I have seen posts where someone is complaining about their DH. Lots of women will then post how amazing their DHs are in response.

Which would indicate that there’s a bit of a mix and you can’t generalise. Hopefully shifting in the right direction