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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
TheAutumnCrow · 15/04/2026 09:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Yes, I’m glad you see it too! I mentioned above, there is now a prolific MiL/DiL poster on MN posting from various ‘perspectives’ with, of course, the perfect son-husband figure in the mix ‘working hard’ while the two (fake) women stake their claims on him with the (fake) children, labour and gifts seen as bargaining chips.

This OP has probably been taken in by it, or …

ChampagneCharly · 15/04/2026 09:33

TiredDinosaur · 15/04/2026 04:27

All these grandparents refusing to help, I'm interested to know if you worked during raising your own kids or if you were a housewife that stayed home ?

I worked three days a week but my step daughter still expected me to provide childcare on my two days ‘off’. She actually planned her part time return to work for the days I didn't work, without consulting me. Assumed I’d ‘love to do it’. That was an interesting conversation. 😏

Saltedtoffee · 15/04/2026 09:35

SmellycatSmelllycat · 15/04/2026 03:38

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
As someone who watched my mum blackmailed into childcare or she was threatened with NC with her grandchildren I totally agree.

Both my parents said before they died that regretted raising kids and then going on to partially raise grandkids when my sister was capable with no issues but hated being a parent and felt she was entitled “to a break”.

My mother was still providing childcare when she was dying of terminal cancer. I walked into her house once to see my 7 year old nephew standing on a stool, heating up beans on a gas hob with a frying pan. My mum was too ill to get up and my sister had “popped out for a few minutes” 3 hours ago.

I have friends who are now starting to become grandparents and are pressured into childcare when they just want to spend enjoyable time together.

You see so many posts on here saying women should be helping their children if they cared but men never have the same expectations on them.

Don’t have children if you are expecting someone else to give up their time involuntarily to help raise them.

My father was never involved in my childhood so It just wouldn't occur to me to ask him.

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 09:36

Katypp · 15/04/2026 09:15

Nope. Pensions are listed seperately. Third in list. Look at yours.
But as i said, this has nothing to do with this thread. Unless you are implying that pensioners have an obligation because workers ars paying for their pensions?
Yet another thing that younger people seem to think is a problem unique to them.
It's the way pensions have always worked.

This is also incorrect. The current cohort of retirees are extracting on average £200K per person more from the state in pension and services in real-terms than they paid in lifetime tax receipts in real-terms (adjusted for inflation). They most certainly did not provide welfare or services of this magnitude to their own parents or grandparents when they were elderly, and they have paid a vastly insufficient amount into the system over their lifetimes to fund the services and welfare which they now demand. This is a proven fact, and young people are picking up the tab for it hence sky high tax rates and all other services being starved of very necessary money.

It wasn’t me who brought up the economic points on the thread but you responded to another poster, incorrectly, claiming that the highest item of public expenditure is benefits for working-aged people and I was simply pointing out the fact that you are factually incorrect.

Luckyingame · 15/04/2026 09:36

Pretty good!
I never had kids and my husband has never done any childcare for his grandchildren.
All fine.
Putting yourself out for others is hugely overrated.

Katypp · 15/04/2026 09:38

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 09:28

I’m an economist.

In 2024-25 total public expenditure was £1,370bn.

£313bn was on “welfare”. Of this, £151bn was state pensions, pension credit and other benefits to those over state pension age. £123bn is for working aged adults (£87.8bn) plus child benefit (£13.3bn). The other £40bn is accounted for by PIP and carer’s allowance, Northern Ireland social security (which is a separate budget), and departmental administration cost for the DWP.

£55bn on social care (vast majority of this is for the elderly)

£242bn on health (vast majority of this is for the elderly)

£125bn on debt interest.

£119bn on education.

£64bn on defence.

£51bn on justice.

£46bn on transport

£40bn on industry/ business

And then other smaller expenses.

In total, around 40% of public expenditure is spent on those over 65 even though they are only 15% of the UK population.

But how is that relevant to this thread?
I am not an economist so will bow to your better knowledge but this thread is not about how much pensions are costing. There are plenty of them.

Newnameagainn · 15/04/2026 09:40

I have never relied on my parents for regular childcare, to cover for me going to work or anything like that. I agree that's a big ask (although I don't judge if it works for other people and grandparents are happy.)

If my parents or in laws had refused to babysit ever on principal, I would have found that a bit miserable of them though, and hurtful in times of true emergencies. And they would be less close with grandchildren as a result, even with visits, because they wouldn't get that one on one time to make memories. I'm not talking about school runs or regular childcare but weekend sleepovers occasionally while me and dh have a date night. Children grow up with those memories and it's not the same as the memory of grandparents only ever visiting the whole family for a cup of tea.

ruethewhirl · 15/04/2026 09:40

Rusalina · 15/04/2026 08:06

I agree with you. I would never tell an individual woman that I think she ought to provide childcare to her grandchild if she doesn’t want to. But surely we can all agree that being so individualistic is not what nature intended and is detrimental on a society-wide level?

My family has a Romany gypsy background, though we’ve been “assimilated” for a few generations, and whenever I read these threads I feel so grateful that my family has retained the cultural value that it is a given that everyone helps each other. I simply cannot imagine my mum not helping me when I need it. I have had multiple grandparents, great aunts and uncles etc live into late 90s and 100s and not one of them ever even had a carer, let alone saw the inside of a care home. Outsourcing basic, normal care of family members is absolutely unthinkable to us, and if it means we sacrifice our earnings or “living our best life” then so be it 🤷‍♀️

And have you ever personally taken on the care of an older family member?

JaceLancs · 15/04/2026 09:40

I will be working full time until I’m 67 and then part time until I’m 75 (health permitting) I will be very happy to provide occasional childcare during school holidays and to give parents a night away or evening out but that’s all I can offer
DD fully understands and will be using a mixture of paid childcare and other family members - luckily when she returns from maternity leave both her and her DH have flexible shift working careers so that will also help

AprilMizzel · 15/04/2026 09:40

My IL were full time working and not particualy child focused and were very clear no childcare help - not that we asked . They still have really good relationships with the GC despite being some distance away - and it's a benefital relationship to them and the GC.

It's only grated when MIL then has a go at me for not keeping my career going as well - then points to all the mother she knows who did all without exception got substainal family help with childcare.

My parents did childcare for my sister eldest - we got nothing. That was fine until it meant they couldn't see my kids as had to be avaliable for childcare. It also grated that they have DN so she could have holidays and do courses in evening to get better paid jobs - but couldn't help us out in emergencies think ambulances blue lighting to hospital. I still dropped everything to help mum out recently. Odd sister resentful she get less help with youngest and childcare with eldest was a souce of friction betwenn them at the time as GP were doing exactly what she wanted and mum complains now they don't know my kids - they stopped vsiting us and when we took kids over they were treated as an inconvience.

I did find it more upsetting when we lived in an area where everyone grew up and came back to and they all had family help - paid help was extremely limited and we were treated as odd for not having what everyone else took for granted - and there were times that hurt when I had to say no to one child doing something as couldn't sort care for others.

Honestly I enjoyed being round the kids and not having childcare help or even occaional babysitting was fine and what we expected though was disappointed we were on own even in emergencies.

VictoriaEra · 15/04/2026 09:41

Brilliant post, OP.

Ficinothricegreat · 15/04/2026 09:42

100% agreed, we have never asked parents for help with childcare, But I see other parents seemingly taking their parents help for granted and some of the grandparents are having to do outrageous things to keep up with the expectations- driving hours, giving up days every week. In my view being a grandparent should be a pleasure, not a job and burden. I mean it’s nice to have offers of help, babysitting occasionally - but if people can’t have kids without imposing on their parents for days every week, they should rethink having kids.

ThatFairy · 15/04/2026 09:43

ChampagneCharly · 15/04/2026 09:33

I worked three days a week but my step daughter still expected me to provide childcare on my two days ‘off’. She actually planned her part time return to work for the days I didn't work, without consulting me. Assumed I’d ‘love to do it’. That was an interesting conversation. 😏

How cheeky. I never thought of asking my mother to do anything like that. I was surprised when she was doing it for my sister and I thought she was out of order for asking

AprilMizzel · 15/04/2026 09:44

TheAutumnCrow · 15/04/2026 09:33

Yes, I’m glad you see it too! I mentioned above, there is now a prolific MiL/DiL poster on MN posting from various ‘perspectives’ with, of course, the perfect son-husband figure in the mix ‘working hard’ while the two (fake) women stake their claims on him with the (fake) children, labour and gifts seen as bargaining chips.

This OP has probably been taken in by it, or …

Intersting missed some of that.

I thought it was off back of thread in parenting adult kids where OP is blasting her 48 Mum for moving away - and it seems less about clossness with GC and more not getting free childcare - as DP parents give them two days a week free.

Blossomtop · 15/04/2026 09:46

I must admit I was surprised at the lack of interest my mother showed in my children, at times it did feel rather superficial, time-limited and involuntary. Growing up my mother was very hands on etc, and having worked in a child-field too I had kind of expected her to be the stereotypical grandmother who was ‘let me take them out, let me feed them, I want to spoil them etc’, so it felt jarring when it was the opposite. Though this coincided with my father having passed away a few years prior and she had started a new relationship which took up most of her time. I rarely ask for support e.g. once during a school holiday or when I was in labour. So it is hard to hear from friends who go on like they can’t keep their parents away from their little ones.

I think you can both be understanding that the grandparents have their own lives to lead, while still feeling hurt if your own aren’t as enthusiastic to come, spend time, and support out of their own free will. It’s not about seeing them only as a resource but about the dream of having your parents actively present and happy to be involved in their children’s new life as parents.

Not to say I don’t appreciate that it can sometimes feel like a burden. I’ve spoken to other grandparents who feel they’re relied upon too heavily and struggle to say no, even when they want to, and when I ask why they haven’t said anything, they say it’s because they love spending time with their grandchildren.

So while it’s important not to take grandparents for granted or feel entitled to their help, there’s also the reality that once they’ve committed to providing childcare, it can be difficult for parents to arrange an immediate alternative. Because of that, clear communication and reasonable notice are important from everyone involved.

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 09:48

thefloorislavayes · 15/04/2026 05:32

Humans are what anthropologists call cooperative breeders. Unlike most species, our children are dependent for an unusually long time, and historically mothers didn’t raise them in isolation. Survival often depended on support from other women, especially grandmothers. There’s evidence from multiple historical populations that the presence of a maternal grandmother increased a child’s chances of survival.

It’s been suggested that women evolved to experience menopause partly so that older women could shift their focus from having more children to supporting the next generation. This is often explained through the Grandmother hypothesis.

Humans are unusual in that women live for decades after their reproductive years. From an evolutionary perspective, that’s not random. One explanation is that older women increased the survival chances of their grandchildren by helping with childcare, food gathering, and general support. In that sense, their role didn’t end with their own children - it shifted.

So across most of human history, raising children wasn’t an isolated task. It relied on a wider network, especially other women in the family. That’s part of why humans have been able to successfully raise such dependent offspring.

So the idea that parenting is, or should be, a completely self-contained, individual responsibility is actually very modern. For most of human history, it wasn’t optional - it was how families functioned.

That doesn’t mean any individual grandmother today is obligated to provide childcare. Autonomy still matters. But it does mean that expecting some level of support, or feeling the impact when that support isn’t there, isn’t “entitlement” or a “logical failure.” It’s a reflection of how human family systems have always worked.

Trying to separate family relationships from practical support as if they’ve never been connected ignores both biology and history. These things have always been intertwined - not as a transaction, but as part of being a functioning family unit

This really sums up the entire thing. It’s very notable that the OP states that even if the grandparent had significant help from their own parents when their children were young that they should feel no obligation whatsoever to provide any support to their own children and grandchildren. It’s an incredibly insular and anti-social, unnatural type of worldview that is almost unique to this current generation of supremely entitled cohort of pensioners in the UK currently and is not shared by the majority of any other generation before or after them.

TheAutumnCrow · 15/04/2026 09:51

AprilMizzel · 15/04/2026 09:44

Intersting missed some of that.

I thought it was off back of thread in parenting adult kids where OP is blasting her 48 Mum for moving away - and it seems less about clossness with GC and more not getting free childcare - as DP parents give them two days a week free.

Well according to OP,

‘It's about a plethora of threads demanding that women act as unpaid servants for their adult children, not one in particular, I see this illogical argument trotted out a lot on these demanding hateful threads.’

Go figure.

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 09:52

Katypp · 15/04/2026 09:38

But how is that relevant to this thread?
I am not an economist so will bow to your better knowledge but this thread is not about how much pensions are costing. There are plenty of them.

I didn’t bring up the economics. You responded to another poster’s comments about public spending and claimed she was wrong. She wasn’t: you were. So I was simply correcting you. If you considered her point irrelevant to the thread then why respond to it in the first place and claim (incorrectly) that she was wrong about the public spending on the elderly? Since you did decide to respond to her and you had written something factually wrong (you claimed that the largest welfare expense is not pensioners, when it is) I have simply pointed this out to you so that you don’t make the same mistake in future.

TheAutumnCrow · 15/04/2026 09:54

Could be a journalist I suppose, trying to fake a ‘pattern’ on MN so they can then write about it. Of course it will be illustrated by a ‘posed by models’ photo of two women snarling at each other or adopting the ‘backs turned to each with arms crossed’ pose so beloved of the MailOnline.

OtterMummy2024 · 15/04/2026 09:57

Currently paying MiL for one day a week childcare, she still works and finds her job physically tiring, we pay her more on her childcare day than she would get in her regular job. She seems to love it, so I hope it's not exploitative! But she also provided loads (so, so much over many years) free childcare to her other grandchild when BiL was going through a nasty divorce.

TheAutumnCrow · 15/04/2026 09:58

TheAutumnCrow · 15/04/2026 09:54

Could be a journalist I suppose, trying to fake a ‘pattern’ on MN so they can then write about it. Of course it will be illustrated by a ‘posed by models’ photo of two women snarling at each other or adopting the ‘backs turned to each with arms crossed’ pose so beloved of the MailOnline.

Also a lot of these ‘types’ of threads are coming from the US or judging by the phrasing and times of many of the posts.

Anyway, as with the other threads I’m going to hide this one now as it’s not worth the time or the effort.

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 10:00

Luckyingame · 15/04/2026 09:36

Pretty good!
I never had kids and my husband has never done any childcare for his grandchildren.
All fine.
Putting yourself out for others is hugely overrated.

You sound really pleasant. I expect you will end up a very lonely old woman if your husband dies before you.

NoisyViewer · 15/04/2026 10:01

Motheranddaughter · 15/04/2026 09:14

Any help should be given by your DH

I agree, but as he works and I don’t the expectations are at my door. He could do it but that would mean him working less and that having a bigger impact on our family. We currently pay for my daughter uni fees and hope to do the same for our son. That wouldn’t be possible if he had the added burden of looking after his mom. For context he’s out the house by 6.30 am and back at 7pm. Were a partnership it’s not fair to say take your mom shopping whilst I stay at home.

matresense · 15/04/2026 10:02

I agree. What I would say, though, is that some grandparents expect visits more than many families would enjoy and treat the visits from their grandchildren as more of an “inspection” on their terms or a form of emotional support to them than a shared joy with give and take. You can see this on the current thread where OP starts off by moaning about childcare, but what emerges is that actually she is caring for two adults who refuse to learn English or do anything independently and that is the issue, not the childcare.

Neither of my children’s grandparents provide childcare - one set are frankly too old and frail (and we visit them locally) and one set live further away and we visit each other and they may offer to babysit one night on extended visits but we don’t expect it and we fully expect to take on the difficult slot when our kids are tired and the grandparents have run out of “fun energy” and to take our fair share of chores - it’s not a fly and flop situation!

I do think that this conflict arises because lots of adult children, like me, have not actually lived at home as an adult. I would visit my parents in uni holidays and then somewhere between every 2-6 weeks as an adult with a demanding job before kids and would call and message around that. For a while, when I had kids and the grandparents were very enthusiastic for their first grandchildren, there was an expectation of constant visits to see the grandchildren where they would be entertained rather than be helping, which frankly felt like a lot when it was beyond what had happened before children and I had less time to myself and with my husband than before. It did feel like a burden. It is, to be honest, work to entertain other adults who don’t help out at home, or to pack up the car and be visiting all the time, rather than napping or doing stuff when the kids are napping at home when you are also working demanding jobs. Even if you love them. I had to decline visits and work out what was comfortable for me. It has settled down now though - my kids have a good relationship with their grandparents, but no one is expected to do vast amounts of emotional or physical labour.

The worst family situations arise because someone agrees to something they don’t want to do and then does it with bad grace. Offer what you want to offer and be fully committed to doing it happily and seeing it through is what I try to do with my parents and my husband’s parents.