DH has reneged on post nup he had promised (pre marriage) he would enter into to protect family inheritance

[mamato3rascals]

Before we got married c 8 years ago, I had said to my DH (financè at the time) that I’d want a pre nup to protect a significant family business, and other inherited assets, that would likely be passed down to me. The value of the inheritance will be significant and so with my sensible hat on I am keen to protect that in any way I can.

For a number of reasons that prenup wasn’t entered into before we married, but he discussed with my Dad and gave him his word (and he did likewise with me) that he’d enter into it in future before any interest passed to me as part of the family’s estate planning. This has been looming a while but we are now at the time where this needs sorting. I have tried and tried to speak to my DH but he is always busy (though I am the main breadwinner, by some way…), explains his fear that I’ll take the family house off him (the post nup leaves the entire family home to him exclusively - valued at £900k and minimal mortgage) and leaves me with a small property rental and ensures that any interest in the family’s wealth remains my asset).

He is so apprehensive about entering into it that he called my dad outright a couple of weeks ago and asked him what he was expecting my DH to do. This is something I’m driving because (a) we are in a bad place and have been for a few years and (b) I can’t bury my head any more and need this sorted. My father was cross at the phone call as he was caught off guard, and on reflection why such reluctance now to discuss with Dad - when he left it years ago on the basis he’d sign something.

He won’t discuss it with me, when I go into his office at night to ask whether he will engage with me on it he tells me to get out, he is exhausted and doesn’t have time to talk about it let alone look for a solicitor that will advise him on it (I’ll pay all of those fees) and ends up putting noise cancelling headphones on with music blaring until I go out. If I stay there he says that he will lock his office door so he is left in peace.

I am at my wits end and had always said to myself that I can put up with his treatment at home (the above being an example) but am so concerned that this is the final nail in the coffin of my marriage (3 young DC under 7, one of which is extremely anxious and constantly worried so I don’t know what a separation would do to her).

If I were to bring our divorce papers I am almost certain he would start to engage - but what concerns me is these post nups are only valid for 5 years and need to be kept under review every 5 years. If he won’t engage now then god help me in 5 years’ time again.

Please be kind as I am worried sick but appreciate any advice. I’ve even considered initiating a divorce for purely financial separation whilst continuing to live long term under the same roof - I am willing to give the marriage everything I have got but the financial worry I am carrying is killing me. I think he expects that he will fail to engage and it will all go away because I’ll get bored of chasing him but fundamentally this is such a U turn from what he promised me before we got married that I am not sure I could ever get over it.

This just tells you how little he cares for her.
No decent man or parent would dream of manipulating a child grappling with change.

This is emotional abuse.

Send a text, outlining how his crying with her is causing terrible distress.
She has witnessed his abuse of you for years and is so distressed.

He continues to be so far ahead of you.

He is playing a game and you are all just pawns.

Start texting him everything he is doing to abuse you all.

I thought you were in the new house?

He is using her to manipulate you. You need clear boundaries. You can’t slow down or back down because he has manipulated your daughter. The longer this drags out the harder it will be.

No going into his home. He doesn’t come into your home. Wave off to daddies from the doorstep.

Well done you! I am so proud of you. I’m sure you realise that such separations take time and I think you are right in taking a softly softly approach. I was in a very similar position to you 40 years ago so do have some understanding of trying to manage everyone’s emotions.

I am lucky that my ex husband and I eventually became friends and have even spent Christmas’s together, although I realise that is not possible for everyone.
Good luck and thank you for updating us xx

I agree with @LongDarkTeatime

But why is there still a situation where you are all together so that these terrible sobbing scenarios play out in front of you?
The actual split has been long and drawn out (because you had to do it single handedly) but it doesn't help if you are still in the old house together.
Dont go back inside the old house and don’t let him in to your house.

But you could also tell your DD that she will find times in her life that we have to dig deep to get through emotional trauma. And this is what you are having to do but dad finds it harder.

Reiterate that none of this is down to her.

It’s an adult matter and that whilst you would never burden her with emotional matters between mum and dad, you recognise it’s hard for everybody.
Tell her it’s best for dad if she can show him that she can accept what has happened and show him that you must all go forwards now, not back.

Tell her it’s simply not her problem to fix dad’s sadness and that the only way anybody can help him is by looking forwards themselves and by staying calm.

Absolve her of all responsibility to try to make her dad feel better.

It is beyond cruel of him to use her like this.
You are doing well to remain positive in the face of his histrionics.
Keep going and things will settle eventually.

Honestly I think you could give more age appropriate truths.

Him: "Look at what mummy is doing"
You: "Tim stop this nonsense now. Its manipulative and unfair to our child. Its not right and its not true.
You and i both know I am not "doing" anything. I couldnt have given you more chances. My hand has been forced and we both know as a family we have been unhappy for a long time.
Sweetie ignore daddy. He is upset about the situation and looking for someone to blame"

She asks me to not make my decision yet and can she have some time to persuade daddy to stop speaking to me like he has been doing because she thinks daddy will listen to her.

I love how hard you try sweetie but sometimes we need to accept we cant fix everything. Mummy tried everything she could but she couldnt get daddy to stop. You cant get daddy to stop either. Its not because you arent smart or lovely or determined enough. Its because he doesnt want to stop.
We cant control other people choices we can just control our own choices. Grown ups are responsible for children. Children and other adults arent responsible for other grown ups..once you grow up you are responsible for yourself."

he is using the kids to hurt you, do not let him win! DD1 will see with time how wrong everything he is doing is

He's an a abusive manipulator and he's willing to hurt your DD to get at you. He's vile. He feeds off her distress and yours, so don't give him any more fuel. In moments like the one you describe, just say something like 'yes it's going to feel sad for a while and we all need to get used to the changes, but we love you very much DD and it will all be okay.' Then breezily change the subject or find a neutral reason to move DD away from him and out of the room. "Shall we go and find your teddy/have a hot chocolate/finish your homework project?"

You can't control him but you can create a loving, calm, safe, predictable and stable home for your DCs. Once your DD has spent more time in that environment with you, she will figure out she only feels bad when she's with her father and she sounds smart enough to work out the rest.

You're doing the right thing by moving you all out of there and away from him so that he can cause the least amount of damage.

Agree with suggestions to get examples of his toxic behaviour in text messages if possible.

He's an a abusive manipulator and he's willing to hurt your DD to get at you.

and taking no responsibility still, it's all 'look what evil mummy is doing'.
You should document it in writing. "DH, today you told DD that.. Please stop, this is very damaging for her. "

What a terrible man he is, I’ve just read your thread and I’m so relieved you made it out very very well done it’s not easy ending relationships even bad ones.

When my marriage ended XH pulled up outside and the kids went out and were dropped off after. There shouldn’t be a need for you to see him in front of them ? I would keep records of what he’s said to your DD in case it becomes useful down the line but unfortunately you can’t control what he says to her but if he isn’t doing it for effect in front of you maybe he will stop.

Best of luck 💐

Also, just a thought, but maybe mark this new era with starting a new thread on the Relationship board, sorry to say you have a long road ahead but the support and advice there is wonderful

All of this. @mamato3rascals your eldest is a baby with a baby’s view of how the world works. I think you need to be tougher with her in order to protect her from her own natural immaturity. So tell her ‘No! It is inappropriate for you to try to fix mummy and daddy’s marriage. This is grown up business not yours.’

every time she raises it, shut that shit down. Your STBXH is adultifying her - which is a form of abuse.

You need to make sure she can remain a child with age-appropriate responsibilities when she’s with you

Very good advice @mamato3rascals
Absolutely message in a factual non emotive way, a record of this incident.
I felt sick at the thought when I read this.
"when DD has been sobbing, he hugs her tightly whilst also sobbing himself. He whispers at me “look at what you’re doing”

For all his pretence at acting out pure and deep emotions - he's a cruel man. Both to you and your DD. Maybe a message like this? Although others may have some better suggestions? ( I know I'm a bit wordy)
"Dear X.
I am working hard to help the children manage this transition calmly to minimise their upset, explaining that they are loved and supported. I've also gone to considerable effort and expense to make sure that they had comfortable nice bedrooms in both homes, to make it easier for them.

Yesterday when you were hugging DD who was crying, you joined in and began sobbing loudly as well, then looked at me and said audibly in her hearing, "Look at what YOU are doing!" , effectively telling her I alone was causing her upset, as if your behaviour towards me played no part in my urgent need to separate,

As adults, we need to exercise restraint in front of the children, comfort and reassure them calmly yes, but please reconsider your current behaviour as it is not helping but merely increasing their distress. "

I think things will be much better as soon as you get into your new home properly. You've worked so hard on this. Maybe download your posts on here so you have a contemporary record of all the work you have done (on both homes) to make it habitable and comfortable for your children. He has not done anything or contributed anything.

I hope your move goes smoothly. I don't think on a practical basis you can just stall it all at your DD's request.. but you can say to her something along the lines that the move is still happening but that you will continue talking to DH about what is best for the children. (Also think that you should communicate (carefully)but directly with his parents)
But one step at a time. And I'm sure things will calm down with DD (she's already see her new home and liked it) . He won't bother with these performances when you are not in front of him. Wishing you all the very best x

Ps. Can you get one of those door chains on the front door, so you can open and talk but they can't just walk in.

This advice is all so helpful, thank you so much. It’s so hard. What would you do if she asks tonight to go back to sleep in Daddy’s house because she doesn’t want to be in the house? I can see that coming later.

The episode with him crying this morning happened in front of me at his house. He’s been away with them for a few days and so because of that DD1 has been showered with all his time and love. It’ll all change next week when he goes back to work, but I’m conscious that tonight she’ll say she feels sorry for him on his own in his house (having just been away with him for 5n). My mum says I shouldn’t let her go because she’ll then know she can always switch as she wishes. I just feel so cruel.

it's amazing though. They all just follow the same exact script. You have begged and pleaded and given him 1000 chances so you would be able to stay in the marriage. And he still has the audacity to sit there with a surprised Pikachu face, claiming divorce came out of nowhere because mummy decided so on a whim, out of the blue, no warning.

Your mum is right, don't let her go. He has spent all the time they've been away manipulating your daughter.

Personally I would make him go to court for access and not leave the children with him alone at all. He is emotionally destroying your little girl because he's not a good person.

Have you contacted his parents yet? I would and let them know they are free to see the children but they will need to contact you to arrange it.

You have come so far, don't let this horrible man keep doing this to your child.

I agree with your mum, it's important to establish routines in your new house and routines for time with dad, when she knows what's happening she'll feel less emotional and more secure. I'd also let your in-laws know you've moved out with the children and will be divorcing.

I would establish a clear routine in line with what you are comfortable with and then try to stick to that as much as possible. It gives the kids clarity, routine, emotional safety and an understanding of when they will see their dad next. You could even get a calendar to hang up so they know and can visualize when they see dad next. What I would say is start with what you are comfortable with and feel safe doing. If you aren’t sure about overnights, then don’t do them unless you feel comfortable. Things are all tearful now but he will get nasty later on when he realizes it’s not working and it’s hard at that point to start reversing on overnight arrangements.

I won’t go into detail but I don’t do overnights because my kids have too high needs and the marriage broke down because he couldn’t cope with them. I don’t feel safe sending them overnight so therefore I don’t do it. He has agreed but could always challenge later or take me to court. I have started from a point of what I am comfortable with and that has given me more control over keeping the kids safe while enabling their father to see them.

Don’t let her go.

’Daddy will be fine, just like Mummy was fine while you were away with Daddy. It will give him some time to see his friends & watch grown up TV.’

@mamato3rascals

You are doing great, but I want to second this approach.

Also, the boundary with seeing him/tue homes (opportunity for his to perform, the hugging crying scenario).

I’m sure the new routine will settle soon!

@mamato3rascals

This.

Absolutely don’t let her go - ‘daddy will be fine’ ad nauseum. Routine (& sticking to it) is so important for the DCs so that they know what is happening & there are clear boundaries in place. Stay strong, you’re doing so well.

"I just feel so cruel."

OP, for your daughter's mental and emotional health, you urgently need to reframe this as "HE is being so cruel."

He is 100% instrumentalising her to get at YOU. You are the true object of his machinations.

You feeling like YOU are the one being cruel is EXACTLY what he wants, and he no doubt knows that he's getting to you by the expression on your face and your behaviour towards your daughter. You are (inadvertently) rewarding his horrid behaviour.

You must remove the reward he's getting, otherwise he WILL 100% keep doing this to DD.

Imv, the way to remove the reward and shut this rubbish down is to:

1. Send him a calm cold email/text that he is instrumentalising DD and it is inappropriate to bring a vulnerable child into adult matters.
2. Talk to DD about this, that her father is an adult and able to look after himself, and she is not responsible for him*
3. Next time he behaves like this with DD, say calmly, "Please stop instrumentalising our child" in FRONT of her*. Then end the encounter.
4. Then, every time he does it, say, "This is instrumentalising our child. I am noting this". Stay flat and cold and end the encounter.
5. Prevent him getting anywhere near you so that he can expose DD to this shit.

You need to reframe this for yourself - HE is being cruel to DD. Get fierce. He's a horrendous POS, you need to protect your DD from him.

And please get her counseling. She needs external support to navigate this.

*eg "My darling, I need to tell you something very important, and I want you to listen closely. It is really very kind of you to want to help and try to make things better between Mummy and Daddy. But you are the child, and we are the grownups. It is not your job to fix Daddy or change how he talks, that's his job. It's not your job to make me happy either, that's my job. It's also our job, us grownups, to take care of you and the boys. You're 8 years old, your only job is to go to school, play, and let us take care of you.

Sometimes grownups feel very sad or upset when big changes happen, and they might express that around you. It’s okay for people to feel sad, but if Daddy seems sad when you leave his house, I want you to remember: Daddy is an adult. He has friends, family, and work colleagues to help him when he feels sad. You don't need to stay with him to keep him company or save him from feeling lonely. He will be okay."

This.
Absolutely do not allow her to do this.
She is a child.

You need to say the above.
Daddy will be fine.
I know adult relationships are hard to understand but mummy knows best here.

Please take the emotional abuse of her very seriously.
She cannot be given any power to direct things.
She is too young for this responsibility.

What an absolute horror he is to behave like this.