To suspect police are worried about vigilantes - Epsom attack

[ReadingCrimeFiction]

I live relatively close to Epsom and so this appalling assault is all over my news feeds and social media.

BBC News - Town left in shock by appalling rape outside church
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8dl5yevjg9o

The police have asked for witnesses but no descriptions have been given. Cue lots of very disturbing posts and comments from people who very clearly think these men are not white.

I can think of half a dozen scenarios where this is not being disclosed but, based on the comments, I think it all comes down to fears that local communities will take it on themselves to "apprehend" anyone who even vaguely looks like the perpetrators? And while the comments I am seeing are mostly white people being disgusting in their assumptions about brown and black people, i can imagine police would he equally concerned if, for example, the woman was Asian or Black and her attackers were white.

Is this where we are at? Where people make horrible racist assumptions and/or where police have to worry about how they will protect the broader community if they give any details of criminals?

Same old, add it to paid one earlier.

Yes, the stats are incomplete, to say the least, and is there anything there about nationality of offenders?

When is this police statement supposed to be happening? I thought it was 7pm today?

I wonder what their cut off is. I suspect for white people it’s immediate but for brown and black people they remain “immigrants” forever.

Well if the perpetrator chooses not to give their ethnicity they can’t simply make it up.

The systems rely on people dismissing the women and girls caught in that damage.

It also creates all sorts of backlash and insults if anyone says this isn’t working, women are deprioritised and men prioritised.

Yes there is, if you care to dig through the ONS stats.

How about those seeking to derail this thread and the back and forth between a couple / few posters on the last 3+ pages is stopped.

A young woman was gang raped.

They were apparently meeting with that Tommo person at 7pm is what I read. 🤔 I'm not sure that can possibly true and is just what I read online but perhaps it was 7pm ish something was happening

It all feels awful. Not just the rape either. There's been bad crimes in the area before and I remember being scared of those but there was always a bit of reassurance that police patrols were stepped up. Those protesting aggressively yesterday add a whole additional element of fear to it. Not only do we need to worry that there are four men out there who committed the most awful of crimes, but on top of that the attitudes of these who turned up yesterday is frightening. We are a very white looking family but what about my parent's mixed race neighbours or the many other ethnic minority families in the area. It makes me so sad.

I haven't suggested he was a migrant.

Neither have I suggested that his parents were migrants and that therefore he was a migrant.

What I've said is that if his parents had not been allowed into this country he would not have been born here and that he would not have been able to commit the crimes in Southport that he did.

Are you suggesting that if his parents had been denied leave to stay here and had been kicked out of the UK it would still have happened?

Do you mean the local people from Epsom "protesting aggresively"? Were all protesters not from Epsom?

Also, what is "white looking"?

I think your confused about who you are replying to...

Yes. I asked @JHound that question. You didn't ask it

@JHound doesn't know who they are replying to let alone what they are saying.

We look white and that means we are unlikely to be targeted by the racists who are screaming about it being immigrants who committed this crime with no evidence. For those who I know are of an ethnic minority that will add an extra level of fear for many.

All protestors were absolutely not from Epsom, some were I'm sure. . Tommo whatever his name is put out a call about four hours before for people to come to Epsom to protest. In fact, on local forums some people have tried to argue that the protest didn't cause disruption to public transport as many protestors went back to the train station to travel home!

The protest was aggressive. Lots of swearing, adults encouraging children to throw things at police officers, people chanting aggressively "who raped the girl" on repeat as well as "Keir Starmer a wanker" while some swigged from beer cans. None of this helps solve the crime, none of this helps the poor woman and none of this makes the community safe.

But that information is largely meaningless:

"Unknown ethnicities in data sources

The recording of ethnicity data varies across sources and will reflect the operational nature of these systems, as data comes from multiple administrative databases or survey data. Where ethnicity information is unavailable with an unknown or not stated ethnicity, this information is not included in the analysis. High levels of missing ethnicity data limit the ability to provide conclusive results and findings may differ from experiences." [p 4]

The percent of unknown ethnicity in the Crown court is 36%! [p 4]

In the magistrates 33%! [p 4]

We know very little about the ethnicity of any criminal offenders

Police admitted that they won't release details of the perps due to fears of 'tensions'.

Do you have a source for this please as I can't find it on the Epsom police or Surrey police sites although appreciate I may have missed it in a quote.

Hold on.

I believe @JHound was replying to me there.

@JHound misrepresented me as I never used the term immigrant in relation to either the Southport killer or his parents - so I never meant "black" about any one of them.

In any case, if i had said immigrant I would not have used it to mean "black".

I'm as opposed to white immigrant rapists as i am to black immigrant rapists. See the reports previously in this thread about the three Polish immigrant rapists.

She’s decided I’m no longer worth bothering with so off to the Gulag with me.

Where have they said that? They are going to have to make it known at some point for the legal cogs to start turning.

I read Keir Statmer said his "thoughts are with the victim", he's the fucking PM, his job is to quite literally run the country, he could expand our police forces, he doesnt get to just say "thoughts and prayers" like my aunt when she posts on Facebook 🫤

When you say "their" I assume you are referring to me.

As I've already said I'm as opposed to white immigrant rapists (qv the three Polish rapists linked to previously) as I am to non-white immigrant rapists.

I don't care about their colour or nationality. I'm concerned that they are rapists and are immigrants who did not have to be in this country

But you sound as if you think colour or nationality make a difference and that their migrant staus does not

The other person didn't state descriptions were only released when the suspect was of a certain ethnicity - they said they were released "immediately" when they were of a certain ethnicity.

Hence my point around the arrest in Huntingdon - the determining factor of the speed of release of information is whether or not a suspect is already in custody.