To find middle class parents insufferable?

[Gwst]

Sorry rant incoming! I'm so sick of how since becoming a parent half the people I speak to seem to be insufferable snobs about the area we live in (in a big city). Schools are "terrible" despite good ratings, couldn't possibly be good enough for their children, and are upset they don't live in a posher area, too many undesirables round where we live, complaining about drugs etc when this is an issue that 100% doesn't affect their demographic. I've recently had someone say they had to move to the suburbs because at their local school all the parents had "a can of coke in one hand, a fag in the other and 10 kids" and another saying a nursery wasn't good enough as they didn't want their child looked after by someone with a speech impediment. Both of these left me with my jaw on the floor shocked someone would think it's OK to say that but they seem to have no embarrassment about saying it to me, a casual acquaintance. And the area we live in is full of creative types, ostensibly left wing etc but also seem to hold these reactionary views when it comes to their kids.

The thing about schools drives me mad as I guarantee most of these people have zero experience of attending or their kids attending a challenging city comprehensive. It's just this perceived bias that their kids will get bullied or become drug dealers or other crap that they heard from their parents as to why they went to private school and are now parroting but can't afford private school or a posh area themselves. I went to a pretty crap school but I came out with good grades and went to a prestigious uni. It wasn't all great but it was a realistic cross section of society and arguably gives you good expectations of the real world and that fact that not everyone in your community is privileged etc. But no one seems to care about that and just wants to look out for themselves and everyone else be damned.

I am middle class myself lol. And my kid is going to have plenty of (unfair) social advantages anyway without us having to get them into "the best" school or only socialise with other middle class people. I just really don't get it. Am I alone in thinking like this??

The primary school that our DC would have attended if we hadn't moved is in an area with a lot of deprivation and has problems with a) poor attendance and b) a significant minority of children turning up for reception who can't speak English. Staff at the school admitted that both these issues drained resources from away from making sure every child reaches their full potential and into making sure that the children who haven't got a great start have at least got the basics.
By contrast: in DC's current state primary class more than a third of the children are from families where both parents are 1st generation immigrants but all the kids speak English well and have good attendance, because their parents are aspirational and value education; teachers can get on with teaching the curriculum and most children, including those with significant SEN, appear to be thriving. Friends who are teachers in the state system say we absolutely made the right choice to avoid the school in our previous location.

People exchange holiday ideas and recommendations just like you exchange recommendations of decorators. (Are you one of those people who constantly drone on about house renovations?)

I have read comments from Irish teachers on MN about how they think it is ridiculous that children are taught algebra at school (!!) and that the Irish curriculum should be more progressive. There seems to be a "progressive" group on MN saying this and that primary schools in the UK should only teach "core maths" (this is a convoluted version of maths which seeks to replace traditional maths teaching if anyone is not aware) and reduce the language part of the curriculum too. Terrible shame that people are still flogging that horse.

I think the UK (each country individually, I think England is the worst) should be brought up to Irish standards. How could this be done do you think? What are the main differences you are aware of? What is the curriculum for Irish Primary and Secondary in very outline terms? Are your exams at 16 and 18 harder? I know I could google but it sounds as though you would be a good source!

Yes you are insufferable. Upwardly mobile, middle class yuppies are also addicts and murderers. Needles in the park and stabbings on the high street happen… everywhere. You obviously think differently, which is testament as to why being brought up in the ’real world’ surrounded by ‘real people’ going through ‘real issues’ is of paramount importance when it comes to raising enlightened, street-savvy, well-rounded children. eyeroll.

I feel like the bulk of these comments are proving my point! Fair enough, the title of the thread was provocative. But I am left scratching my head at the wild overreaching in response to my point, similar to the parents I'm talking about.

Hoping to send my (real but a long way off secondary school age child) to a local school means I'm sacrificing them to the wolves for my own selfish principles (or trying to be "groovy" 😂)? Not automatically assuming that the locals schools that i haven't visited but are rated good or higher are crap based on the local demographics means I don't want what's best for my child?? Obviously when the time comes i will visit them all and put the one we think seems best at the top of the list but I'm not going to prejudge based on my own biases. I am snobby and horrible for thinking it's snobby to make rude comments about working class parents? The one that made me laugh the most was the person who said "I only have one child so I'm not going to experiment on them", so if you have multiple kids it's OK to use one of the spares as a science experiment?

I'm very sorry for anyone who had a bad time at school and experienced bullying or disruption. I experienced both and it can leave deep scars but it was complicated (and tbh I was picked on mainly by kids of a similar background to me) and I don't hold anything against my parents for choosing that school (which wasn't failing) and I have friends from a variety of backgrounds who went to different types of schools and people's experience is just so varied regardless of the type of school/ area. There are a lot of factors. Plus this was 20 years ago so things change. My old school is really highly regarded now, the ones in my area might be in 7 years who knows?

Really does depend on the area, most state schools are fine and I went to a state school that was fine. However, some inner city state schools are really, really bad. You don’t seem to have any idea about the reality of this..have you done any actual research on the schools your friends are talking about? Maybe they have done research and their fears are based in reality. By the time my brother (who’s 8 years younger) came along, we’d moved into the city (big city in Scotland) his inner city state school was shocking - kids getting their faces slashed with knives, riot police up their weekly with shields and batons due to full class riots that were completely out of control, multiple different hard drugs being sold in school. Unsurprisingly he came out with no qualifications and some very dodgy friends, and now as an adult as multiple drugs convictions. Even if these schools aren’t this bad, there’s no smoke without fire, I doubt all your friends are so snobby and out of touch, that they think every state school is an awful dangerous place (if they have then apologies and yes they’re being ridiculous), but they’ve liked looked into it and want the best for their kids, nothing wrong with that. No way I’d be sending my kids to a rubbish high school, I want them to have the best experience possible.

I went to a very rough comp too and got excellent grades. I had high expectations of the state school system too. Sigh!

You’ll find out if the secondary school is ok in due course. Ours is widely regarded as one of the best in a 50 mile radius. Didn’t stop kids beating up my child repeatedly. Again and again. Day after day. When the self harming got serious we threw in the towel and went private.

Private school is just incredible in comparison. So friendly and wholesome. It’s not just kids grinding out exam results in an atmosphere of constant fear. My only issue is that I can’t afford it for my other kids.

Don't get all moralistic about the ‘rounded’ education your kids are going to get in a dodgy state school, because you’ll look like a bit of a chump if it turns out to be terrible and you have to remove them.

I did everything I could so that my kids could go to the best possible school. Not just for their educational chances but to be friends with kids from similar backgrounds.

Well arguably that is what selective school eitber private or grammar are. Yes I know there will be a good smattering of clever autists but they are rarely openly disruptive.

You are out of date London schools out percorm almost everywhere else in England. It is deprived (white) coastal communities that have tbe worst results.

But you can't just buy a house in a naice area and avoid it can you?

Studies show that where you raise your kids has the biggest effect on their life outcomes. Some parents care about their kids.

You can move to a grammar county or stump up the fees ( or take scholorship exams) instead. I am quite open that we did both with our very bright 10 year old rather than allow him to go to a school where less than 50% achieved A-C ( as it was then) in Maths and English. He would have stuck oit like a sore thumb and never reached his potential.

@NeurodiversitydoctorDid the poster say London? London schools thrive because they have clever immigrant dc who want to do well and their parents are here for better opportunities. Elsewhere is not so rosy and exam results and university stats show this to be the case. Dc often lack ambition if they don’t see success. In London success is never far away.

I don’t get it -they just want what’s best for their children it sounds like ?

Where did she say about London? And they certainly all don't. . Look at eastlea or listed schools for example

The worst outcomes are for white working class boys in Blackpool.

And what if you gave a well behaved but not particularly academic child? Unless you can afford private what then?

One of mine did go to grammar but very few places in Essex compared to applications

Makes it sound as though if you can't afford to live in a nice area then you don't care about your kids

OP I think you’re being very idealistic. Classic middle-class, well educated, out of touch leftie. The type who doesn’t believe in private school and will choose their child’s education based on their own values & politics rather than based on giving their child the best possible experience. Thing is your kid is very young you said, it’s easy to be idealistic when high school is years away. I suspect you’ll feel very differently when you’re faced with the reality of it

https://www.ucu.org.uk/article/5676/New-analysis-highlights-the-great-education-divide-across-Britain

TBH we probrably would have gone private anyway.

I come from somewhere that makes Rotherham, or parts of it, look positively genteel, and I still ended up at Oxford, despite only making it through school alive because the bully, of whom everyone was terrified, took a liking to me after we were put sitting together in maths. (She’s dead now, having done a couple of stints in prison.) Still think private education is ethically indefensible.

Yes I did think this too! So achingly middle class to not care which school they send their child to as they’ll be more rounded etc!

I went to a very ordinary secondary. One parent was ideologically opposed to anything better and the other couldn’t have cared less.

I did exceptionally well academically. However I had zero knowledge of university life, the range of careers/professions open to me, and how to conduct myself in a whole range of professional and social settings. I couldn’t leverage my good secondary education whatsoever.

Send your kids to the school where they’ll develop the best confidence and connections as well as results I’d say. They’ll need those things in life.