To find middle class parents insufferable?

[Gwst]

Sorry rant incoming! I'm so sick of how since becoming a parent half the people I speak to seem to be insufferable snobs about the area we live in (in a big city). Schools are "terrible" despite good ratings, couldn't possibly be good enough for their children, and are upset they don't live in a posher area, too many undesirables round where we live, complaining about drugs etc when this is an issue that 100% doesn't affect their demographic. I've recently had someone say they had to move to the suburbs because at their local school all the parents had "a can of coke in one hand, a fag in the other and 10 kids" and another saying a nursery wasn't good enough as they didn't want their child looked after by someone with a speech impediment. Both of these left me with my jaw on the floor shocked someone would think it's OK to say that but they seem to have no embarrassment about saying it to me, a casual acquaintance. And the area we live in is full of creative types, ostensibly left wing etc but also seem to hold these reactionary views when it comes to their kids.

The thing about schools drives me mad as I guarantee most of these people have zero experience of attending or their kids attending a challenging city comprehensive. It's just this perceived bias that their kids will get bullied or become drug dealers or other crap that they heard from their parents as to why they went to private school and are now parroting but can't afford private school or a posh area themselves. I went to a pretty crap school but I came out with good grades and went to a prestigious uni. It wasn't all great but it was a realistic cross section of society and arguably gives you good expectations of the real world and that fact that not everyone in your community is privileged etc. But no one seems to care about that and just wants to look out for themselves and everyone else be damned.

I am middle class myself lol. And my kid is going to have plenty of (unfair) social advantages anyway without us having to get them into "the best" school or only socialise with other middle class people. I just really don't get it. Am I alone in thinking like this??

I get it OP as someone from a very WC impoverished background who climbed the social ladder so to speak and am highly educated. I find lots of the issues MC people worry about petty to say the least. I thankfully don’t often have to do the school run but I find the conversations I overhear utterly insufferable. They seemingly have no life away from their children and live vicariously through them.

If the schools you're referring to are fine @Gwst then whats the problem with these parents choosing to educate their children elsewhere? A good school isnt going to mind and probably has a waiting list anyway. Are you suggesting state controls on where people live and who they mix with?

I wonder how many of those complaining parents have taken illegal drugs more than once or twice?

complaining about drugs etc when this is an issue that 100% doesn't affect their demographic.

They tend to be the users though 😆

My kids went to a fairly standard inner city primary. We were happy with that. When they went to secondary we were not that picky either, but it has been a very variable experience. Now it's come to sixth form we are super picky and only want the best for them! In some ways I am glad they have rubbed up against all types of children, those with issues and difficult backgrounds. But I do still get scared for them when they come a bit too close to something kicking off. However, in my more sane moments I realise they are actually well adjusted kids and they are able to handle most things just fine. In any case, most of the harm comes through social media anyway and that seems to be irrespective of which school you go to.

I thankfully don’t often have to do the school run but I find the conversations I overhear utterly insufferable. They seemingly have no life away from their children and live vicariously through them.

What do you expect people to discuss with perfect strangers at school gates? Problems at work? Politics? Philosophical matters of the universe? Dreadful state of the economy? Crystal Pite's choreography?

I think you’re confusing the words “middle-class” and “wanker”

‘some’ might be right, but I am not so sure that OP has provided proof that she is not insufferable.

YABU to not want the best for your own child. Why are you pointing out their own “unfair advantages”? You’re supposed to be their parent and champion them, not bring them down.

I come from a sink estate. The schools were terrible, my high school has been shut down. Why would I put my child through that. If I can give them any kind of leg up then I will. Obviously it doesnt bother me that MC parents feel the same way.

And the area we live in is full of creative types, ostensibly left wing etc but also seem to hold these reactionary views when it comes to their kids.

I do actually know a lot of parents like this where I live. Many of their children go to Steiner schools or are home educated. Obviously not all parents are like this, but I do recognise the stereotype.

Clearly there are some extremely awful schools out there that it's perfectly reasonable for those parents who have a choice to do their best to avoid. I also think it's perfectly reasonable to pick the best school you can for your child, even if the school you're avoiding is only slightly less good than the one you choose.

What's irritating about some of the conversations is people justifying their decisions to avoid particular schools by being unnecessarily hyperbolic about how awful they are, as if this will somehow stop people thinking they're just snobs.

It's pointless and can come across as insulting. Talking about how you "really had no choice, honestly, St Catchment's School is just too awful" and so on to try to make it seem better actually just makes it worse (partly because of the implicit "it's good enough for your children though").

Really, you've said everything you need to about your opinion of the local school by making the decision not to use it - after that, frankly, the best thing to do is to shut up (or to talk only about the positives of the school you've chosen).

The hyperbole is particularly ridiculous when the comparison is private vs. leafy comprehensive, but I think sometimes people who have decided to pay get a lot of reassurance they made the right choice by hearing stories of the 'bullet' they've dodged, so exaggerated stories about how awful a local comprehensive is are very satisfying to hear and to share. When you actually use the local school and hear ludicrous stories you just don't recognise it's really obvious that there are people doing that.

The issue isn't really people making different choices it's the conversations around those choices that can be cringy (and I don't think class really has anything directly to do with it).

Agreed.

I live in a very aspirational middle class area - we don't really get the schools discussions because the local state schools are very good so there isn't much to complain about. But you do get it about cars, holidays, houses.

And swimming lessons! For as long as I can remember it's been terrible to allow the (very good) swimming teachers at the local council pool (which hasn't been run by the council for about a decade now) to teach your kids to swim and you have to use a private swimming school. My son swam there from 5-18 and survived...

Where was the state school?

I hate to say it, OP, but it seems to me you are just attractive to arseholes who think you are like them 🤣. There are plenty of arseholes of all social classes, and when they think they are on safe ground with someone “like them,” they let it all hang out. That you are not complaining about “working class” arseholes, or “upper class” arseholes just indicates to me you aren’t mixing with them as much as you would like or as much as you think you are, or you aren’t trusted by them. 😏

Oh gosh, this is me! (I'm working class though.)

I spend a lot of time thinking about holidays, researching holidays and talking about holidays! I love talking to people about their holidays and looking at their pictures and videos. Other school parents are the same, so there is an inordinate amount of chat and messages about holidays!

Hi OP, we looked at a handful of some of the best primary schools where we are. We ended up choosing an outstanding state village primary school. It's absolutely amazing and the children and parents are all lovely. I'd love it if all primaries were the same, but I know from friends and family who are teachers that not all primary schools are.

I went to a fantastic primary school in a big city hundreds of years many years ago. It was really diverse with fantastic children and parents and I really enjoyed it. My parents really wanted us to have a good, solid education and I suppose I want the same for my DC, as do the vast majority of parents. Everyone I know with young children has tried to do the best that they can given the circumstances they are in.

(I'm working class, northern and will socialise with anyone!)

DS was tutored for the 11+ went to a SS West Kent grammar thence( with 4A*s @ A level) to Oxbridge is about to graduate with a 1st in Stem subject. He also had amazing sporting and extra curricular experiences, was surrounded by bright motivated peers and wonderful teachers.

The comprehensive 10 minites walk from the house has been in special measures for most of intervening 11 yrs. I don't care that many of the primary school Mums disaproved, I wpild do it all over again tommorow.

Rotherham?

I hate doing school run in my north london suburb so I guess I probably agree with you.

Just wow . . . you are so judgmental Op, do you think you might be the problem here?

Haven't read the full thread, but I grew up in Rotherham, and there were 6 of us from there in my year at my Oxford college (from different - state - schools).

Yeah, apparently Oxford refuses applicants with a Rotherham postcode. 🙄

I had to laugh at the reference to Rotherham, as though it's a barren wastleland that no one comes out of alive!

The references to drugs made me think. I grew up in one of the 'roughest' parts of my hometown (if you've seen Young Offenders, a lot of it was filmed near where I lived) and the first time I ever saw hard drugs was when I worked at Bristol University. I went to a houseparty thrown by one of the senior lecturers (her husband was a barrister and their house was huge). At one point she asked her 17 year old daughter if she 'had anything' and off the daughter trots and comes back with some pills, which she a lot of the other senior staff took. A fellow WC staff member and I just stood there, not knowing what to do. I was so thankful when he suggested we leave.

To this day I can't believe they did it. The blatant flaunting of drug taking, using their own child as a supplier. Those idiots are the same people who would sneer at the 'rough' parts of Bristol and consider themselves above it, despite the fact that the utter twats were funding the drug trade that blighted those neighbourhoods. The hypocrisy was beyond, it makes me angry still.

I went to a dreadful West Yorkshire comprehensive where we had two stabbings and violence threatened daily.
I did everything possible to avoid any future children of mine having to go to that (or an equivalent) hell hole daily. It was awful and I hated school.
i was also brought up in an area where my friend and I were set upon walking home for looking at someone the wrong way.