To find middle class parents insufferable?

[Gwst]

Sorry rant incoming! I'm so sick of how since becoming a parent half the people I speak to seem to be insufferable snobs about the area we live in (in a big city). Schools are "terrible" despite good ratings, couldn't possibly be good enough for their children, and are upset they don't live in a posher area, too many undesirables round where we live, complaining about drugs etc when this is an issue that 100% doesn't affect their demographic. I've recently had someone say they had to move to the suburbs because at their local school all the parents had "a can of coke in one hand, a fag in the other and 10 kids" and another saying a nursery wasn't good enough as they didn't want their child looked after by someone with a speech impediment. Both of these left me with my jaw on the floor shocked someone would think it's OK to say that but they seem to have no embarrassment about saying it to me, a casual acquaintance. And the area we live in is full of creative types, ostensibly left wing etc but also seem to hold these reactionary views when it comes to their kids.

The thing about schools drives me mad as I guarantee most of these people have zero experience of attending or their kids attending a challenging city comprehensive. It's just this perceived bias that their kids will get bullied or become drug dealers or other crap that they heard from their parents as to why they went to private school and are now parroting but can't afford private school or a posh area themselves. I went to a pretty crap school but I came out with good grades and went to a prestigious uni. It wasn't all great but it was a realistic cross section of society and arguably gives you good expectations of the real world and that fact that not everyone in your community is privileged etc. But no one seems to care about that and just wants to look out for themselves and everyone else be damned.

I am middle class myself lol. And my kid is going to have plenty of (unfair) social advantages anyway without us having to get them into "the best" school or only socialise with other middle class people. I just really don't get it. Am I alone in thinking like this??

Particularly bizarre thread, all over the place.

I'm working class (on universal credit, have part time zero hours minimum wage job) and all 4 of my dc went to private school, 2 went on to Oxbridge. So not only middle class!

My child got our local primary school because she is adopted, we live close but not in the leafy suburbs, many are drawn to in order to get a local place. So many comments ‘how did YOU get a place’ doesn’t even occur to them that some kids get priority because of their previously in care status, because their circle is so small and privileged.
Sadly the school have turned out to be awful and we’ve felt even more excluded.

This is a thing bigger primary schools serving more deprived areas are more familiar and often better at dealing with SEN.

Guess your talking to me because I’m the one who mentioned headlice, I never mentioned private school though except to say my kids don’t go there they just go to the best free school in town as opposed to the shitter schools and one very shit sachool in particular.

lol i literally have sleepless nights over my kids going out local secondary school and will use every middle class bone in my body to find an alternative! I went to a private school (so you'll hate me) and there's just no comparison. You have no experience of a good school , but let me tell you it's huge! My kids are at the local primary school and it's ok . But it's nothing compared with where I went. Problem disruptive kids, lax rules, low expectations. They don't push to pupils at all and as long as they are ' meeting the expected standards' which are LOW they are fine. No PE teacher till YEAR 3. no art classes, no laguages, the list goes on.

Im glad you came out of your school well, but you are the exception!

@TaraRhu Not an exception! That’s hyperbole. DC attending less good schools get lower offers for many of the best universities. They don’t need to excel quite often. Look at the list of schools Bristol give lower offers to!

You might not like this mix of people and on some grounds that’s understandable BUT you are also extremely naive.
I’m guessing your DCs must be quite young. You’ll find out soon enough.

Where did I say that parents who "pick better areas" are bad parents?

Conversely, where did I say I am doing the "bare minimum" for my child?

I said that I am annoyed by people making judgemental comments about our local schools based on their own biases about the area (an area they choose to live in). This overreaching is so bloody silly, grow up

🙄

That’s totally untrue. Many working parents are on universal credit

To be fair, @Gwst, you made a sweeping negative comment about “the middle classes” in your post title, so you can only expect replies equally sweeping and negative in response. If you want nuance, then post nuance rather than start out with rage bait.

I still don’t understand your point though. We all have different children and different expectations for schooling our children. Some people take a more passive approach to say, it doesn’t matter the school just turn up and do your best, other people feel very strongly about the learning environment has to fit their child. The bias may or may not be correct but surely no one would want knowingly Send their child to a school where they know their kid wouldn’t be happy?

as people regularly show, some children thrive in any school, regardless of whether it has issues. Other children don’t. There is literally no issue with people beng judgemental about these things. Doesn’t mean that others have to share their views. There is as shown by this thread lots of reverse ‘snobbery’. But that’s fine too.

I agree with you OP.

I’m supposedly middle class, I’ve put my child in a state school. I went to a state school but I grew up working class.

I think what people are missing from this conversation is “who is my child” and “what environment will they thrive in” - that is the number one question. If you do send your child to a state school the next question is “how can I work with the school and teachers to ensure they get the best outcome”.

I have confidence in my DD because I know who she is, she is headstrong and she can get through a state school. However we did travel further out to get into better state schools, as the ones around us had bad reputation.

If I had a child that needed extra support or that was easily swayed and influenced, I would consider moving areas and looking for a school that might be away from certain temptations.

Ive had snobby parents come up to me and ask me why I sent my kid to a state school, they thought “I thought you’d do better”. Then I ask them about their involvement with their grammar school child and they have such a surface level response. Again, not all. But many choose a certain life for their kids so that they can brag about it.

If your child is happy and thriving and you work together , you can work towards the outcome you are looking for. Also remember not all kids want to go off to red brick unis etc. but for those that do it’s a possibility if they go to state school too.

I still don't know what the point of this thread is.

So far, my conclusion is that you can judge others for judging others, is that it?

Are we supposed to have a moral/ethics lesson here or did you just want to show what a great person you are?

Genuinely missing the point.

So we should aim to send our DCs to underperforming schools, to enable them to receive contextual offers at good universities, due to their inevitable low grades?!?! That’s an interesting take. And as far as I’m aware, parental income does come into the contextual offer equation, which doesn’t bode well for those of us who aren’t eligible for child benefit.

As I've stated already i went to a not brilliant school and am well aware of the issues when you have disruptive kids in a class, I've lived it. And somehow also come out of it not thinking that I should be segregating my family away with other "nice" similar people and everyone else be damned?

Well isn’t this revealing 😆

You think that all these “annoying” middle class parents removing their children from classes full of disruptive kids is “damning” those kids?

But you’re simultaneously arguing that those classes are perfectly nice and it’s offensive to not want your kids going to them?

This!!

Why on earth would you assume he’d be stabbed at the local comp? Ofsted says good but you think everyone is in there waving machetes around?

DD went to her intake school with majority estate kids (it’s a church school). Did really well and is now studying her a-levels. Made some good friends. Learned who to stay away from but was never in any danger. Worst behaviour from peers is probably vaping.

She hasn’t learned how to infiltrate government, lie in Westminster and embezzle/outsource contracts to her mates though, so maybe she is at a disadvantage 😂

@SezFranklyunfortunately where we live stabbings and gang violence is very common. It’s not that you assume they’ll be stabbed on the way home but it is a reality

OP’s kids classmates are fleeing the local state school. OP is probably getting the impression she’s fucked up by not doing likewise and instead of working out how to get her kid out of there too, is hitting out at these parents for being too middle class for the local school.

I bet the other parents have done far better research than OP and that’s why they’re going to the effort of moving their child. Why bother otherwise?

State schools at every level are far, far worse than when we were kids. The best state schools are still fine. The mediocre and bad? Any responsible parent ought to be doing all the my can to get their child out of there.

I suspect you are making assumptions about people’s ’bias’ and underestimating the research they’ll have done.
Parents I knew when our kids were young all had a good handle on the quality of the surrounding secondary schools - had done research, and some (like me) had visited the schools for various different reasons.

Are you a bit of an inverted snob? Honest question.
Snobbery is not always a bad thing - I’m a wine snob and it means I get to drink nice wine 😂 - especially when it comes to your kids. Being aspirational for them is good parenting. Wanting to help them avoid struggles is also good parenting, as is helping them through any struggles they encounter.
Most parents want and do what THEY think is best for their kids. You may disagree with them, but it doesn’t make them or you wrong.

School is not about exam grades and uni offers.
Children spend 8 hours a day at school, it's a huge chunk of life and experience during the formative years.

Ok mum, sorry for swearing.

Have you read The Let Them Theory? Let them be snobs, let them do the extra research and the extra expense of moving or paying for a private school. You and I both know that a child can have a good experience in a state school. We've brought our children up in an area which many people we know are very snobby about and wouldn't consider sending their children to a school in our catchment. More fool them as the local primary is amazing. My kids have all done very well and will have great careers, they're resilient and community spirited. I think it's been good for my teens to know people from a whole range of backgrounds.

The difference that we can make to the life potential of some of the people in our community as one of the more deprived areas is huge. And I would rather be a part of making that change and addressing the inequities in society than putting on blinkers and running away to a more expensive area. The pride I have for some of my kids' mates and those friends' older siblings is huge. The ones who have been the first in their family to go to uni while their mum taught herself to read in her 20s, ones who have turned up and done amazingly at exams despite grief and being a young carer and chaotic housing, ones who've got their own businesses and skills through hard graft and putting in the work. There are so many teens in our area who get a bad rep who are helpful active scouts, who are excellent at sports, who volunteer at community events for older people, who are just decent.

When I tell people where I live they'll often go "oh, there are some nice bits in (name of place)" and I'm like "I don't live in the lovely bit" and they're like "oh" and I go "and I love it". Our house is cheap, we've got great schools, great sense of community, great public transport links, a lovely park, walkable shops, doctors surgery, we're near the beach and the country and a big city. People can get so snooty that they can't appreciate the positive things in a place.

Also I was gentrified out of our home town by richer middle class people moving from London to a place they read about in the Guardian so I couldn't afford to live in the lovelier local place even if I wanted to.

It’s not always one extreme or the other.

You mention your kids wanting to mix with people of other backgrounds. Many kids who go to a private secondary also went to a state primary.

You see I disagree on the ‘community minded’ bit of the above. Having children in state schools and private, in the (‘outstanding’) state school the hostility to each other is such that the kids keep their head down, learn what they can and never - ever - thinking of doing anything other than what is asked of them as pupils. The timetable has the subjects they are studying, PE and personal, social etc and that’s it.

The private school on the other hand has the academic classes, then assemblies, form, some sort of philosophical / moral lesson, one whole afternoon for sports and another for enrichment which is a mixture of learning a new skill or volunteering in the community. The kids are so much kinder to each other. It’s so much more wholesome. There’s time to build the whole child, not just trying to ram enough academics into them to get into a good uni.

But let’s not digress into a private school / state school argument. My rough comp taught me to keep my head down otherwise I’d get a beating. My kids ‘outstanding’ state school taught them the same. A good school - state or private - should build he whole child. In some schools it’s easier to do than others.