To find middle class parents insufferable?

[Gwst]

Sorry rant incoming! I'm so sick of how since becoming a parent half the people I speak to seem to be insufferable snobs about the area we live in (in a big city). Schools are "terrible" despite good ratings, couldn't possibly be good enough for their children, and are upset they don't live in a posher area, too many undesirables round where we live, complaining about drugs etc when this is an issue that 100% doesn't affect their demographic. I've recently had someone say they had to move to the suburbs because at their local school all the parents had "a can of coke in one hand, a fag in the other and 10 kids" and another saying a nursery wasn't good enough as they didn't want their child looked after by someone with a speech impediment. Both of these left me with my jaw on the floor shocked someone would think it's OK to say that but they seem to have no embarrassment about saying it to me, a casual acquaintance. And the area we live in is full of creative types, ostensibly left wing etc but also seem to hold these reactionary views when it comes to their kids.

The thing about schools drives me mad as I guarantee most of these people have zero experience of attending or their kids attending a challenging city comprehensive. It's just this perceived bias that their kids will get bullied or become drug dealers or other crap that they heard from their parents as to why they went to private school and are now parroting but can't afford private school or a posh area themselves. I went to a pretty crap school but I came out with good grades and went to a prestigious uni. It wasn't all great but it was a realistic cross section of society and arguably gives you good expectations of the real world and that fact that not everyone in your community is privileged etc. But no one seems to care about that and just wants to look out for themselves and everyone else be damned.

I am middle class myself lol. And my kid is going to have plenty of (unfair) social advantages anyway without us having to get them into "the best" school or only socialise with other middle class people. I just really don't get it. Am I alone in thinking like this??

I live in a shit area in a shitty little house (though I do keep it as nicely as I can) and my kid went to the local nursery and primary and secondary school. Oddly they went on to get good GCSEs and A Levels and went onto to get a good degree. Might have had something to do with my parenting in that I value education and have a strong work ethic. I guess that yes, I would have moved if I had the money but even then there would have been no way I could have afforded to live in one of the "better" areas as a single parent. Surely the goal should be good schools for all and for shitty areas to have better policing, to be cleaned more than a few times a week, my street was last cleaned in November yet the city centre is cleaned every evening. Areas like the one I live in have been allowed to degrade, are used as dumping grounds for people with complex needs, the local drug/alcohol/homeless charity has over 60% of its supported housing and projects here.We have open dealing and loads of street drinking as a consequence. When this organisation try to open accomodation in more "middle class" areas the residents organise and protest so it does not happen. In an area like mine, people are so busy trying to survive they do not have the energy to do this.

We used to live in a leafy London area where this type of narrative and cliché is widespread among MC living in 1M+ houses. They also send their kids to local state schools - my DC1 went too.

You should read more on Marxism to understand your views are divorced from reality and you cannot change the system by sending your kids to the melting pots of precariat.

I'm actually surprised you have children, you seem to have endless zeal for social campaigning, no MC can afford that after work and childcare duties.

Basically OP I think you are talking out of your hat. You need to understand that what people say says everything about them and nothing about the recipient. Also peoples' definitions of different classes if there are such anyway, vary greatly with no real common thread as a denominator.

Drug dealing can affect everyone. It's not as simple as your kids will say no if you bring them up properly. I couldn't afford to and wouldn't use private education, but I know that some kids do better than others in "tough" schools, and I don't judge others who use it, particularly if their kids have SEND.

I would say I'm more working than middle class (how do we define that-how many degrees I have/how rich I am/how I speak? My family grew up in really deprived circumstances, but had parents who pushed them to work hard, read a lot and always speak politely, so is that more middle class than the rich private school people a few streets away who have brand new designer wear and SUVs they park in considerately, who swear and allow their kids to drop litter?)

I hear you. Can't stand those chavs who can't afford to keep up with one's lifestyle- and, horror, they might be confronted not only with those of lower socio-economical status, but also with people from different cultures.

Fancy that - there's a commenter thinks that there is "trashy" lice and middle class lice. Unless I've misunderstood and she thinks lice only exists in poor areas/unacceptable schools? Maybe she doesn't realise that they prefer beautifully kept conditioned hair to dirty knotted hair?

Is that seriously what you get from that link? Do you understand what it's saying?

Hi OP, I went to a pretty crap school too and came out with good grades/attended decent uni. But there is no way in hell I'd be sending my daughter to the local comp. I would never want her to go through what I went through. It is pretty normal to want better for your children.

Marxism is a theory, not a fact. It's an interesting theory but much of it is pure arse in my view. I don't consider myself a Marxist by any stretch. Some of my views would be considered socialist but usually only by those people who are afraid of socialism and thus want to dismiss it.

I completely understand what is being said in those links. I posted 2. Which are you having an issue with?

Are your local secondary schools in ‘not nice’ areas? As this is about as much evidence as you need for the assumption that there will be lots of low level disruption IME (and I came from a council estate myself!). I’d always pick a school in a more affluent area for my children if possible as generally the attitude of the parents towards education will be better and this will reflect in the children that attend.

Do you think this is snobby?

Sure, but your views are also just a theory :)
We don't live in a socialist society and I doubt you would want to live in Cuba, East Germany or USSR :)
I actually like socialist ideas not dismiss them (even though their real life applications failed to thrive as countries) but think it would be foolish to try and apply them on an individual basis in a ruthless capitalist and individualist society.
Any pretence of social contract that might have existed before I was born was broken a long time ago.

@Gwst It is so interesting you say this. I moved out of an area precisely because of this. When I first moved it was a lovely, very diverse area. None of my friends were born in this country! But it became a bit like the new Hackney and I really disliked the mums moving in a couple of years below my children. My best friend moved to Scotland and I couldn't put up with it any more! I loved the area as a whole but the middle class, well off, performative parents spoiled it for me. They thought they were so open minded living in a diverse area but were actually very cliquely. They spoiled a perfectly nice area and I had to go as I was getting too frequently irritated for me own good.

We were in Edinburgh recently for my cousin’s 50th. We booked an Airbnb on the Royal Mile. Long story short, we got back to our accommodation a bit worse for the wear. So my husband and youngest son (who was having a hypo- he’s DT1) were trying to put the code into the door to get in when these mc young people started to shout down random numbers thinking they were hilarious. It was quite fraught. Then my oldest son shouted up to the main protagonist (who was wearing a kilt) “Jesus man, you’re embarrassing yourself, we can see right up your kilt and it’s not pretty”. They melted away like snow off a dyke.They thought they were better than us due to their class.

Nah, I get that and many other facts from my PhD but not going to upload full bibliography 😂
It's useless anyway, people never change their views in discussions, only when the reality hit them real hard.

Purely socialist countries have failed to thrive, but there is no requirement for a country to purely socialist. The NHS fits with a socialist approach, for example. Ireland has quite a socialist mentality and is currently in the process of implementing a NHS-esque healthcare system for the first time.

As far as segregation leads to ghettoisation is concerned, that's not a theory, that's a fact which has been proven over and over and is about as controversial as saying 1+1=2

Yes, people of all classes can be dicks - surely this isn't news to you?

I am so confused. Are you saying those links are stating that affluent=better? Are we reading the same links?

No it isn’t new to me. But segregation of children due to class leads to the entitlement of the young people I’m talking about. No manners, because they have lived in a bubble.

It's worth pointing out that in a world where MC people make choices that disadvantage people who are less well off, more affluent people also make choices that disadvantages MC people, which is of course how we got into the shit show that we have at the moment. While everyone is scrambling to get what they feel they deserve and climbing over the people below them, everyone loses out.

It’s human nature to want the best for your kids, if you don’t you’re doing something wrong. It’s why I don’t think many ‘left wing’ views hold up in the real world where people are driven by much more powerful wants and desires than political ones, and it’s also why socialism is fundamentally flawed.

That's quite a stretch!

Also, the kids shouting 'fuck off' in reception in my DCs' class were definitely not the ones living in an MC bubble. Good enrichment for mine though right?

I don’t know. My two went to a state school and they are successful. But they also have empathy for people who aren’t as fortunate as they are because they mixed with them, became friends with them etc.

Don’t know about reception as we don’t have it up here.

But I would say it was enrichment as it showed them that other children weren’t as lucky as they are.

Yanbu. But dude, know your audience……😊