Violent children should be stopped regardless of other factors

[Hamalam]

The part that struck me about the Southport findings was the way AR seems to have been given leeway because he had an ASD diagnosis. Oh he’s carrying a knife and a hockey stick but he has ASD, as if that’s ok. It’s an attitude I have met a lot with my child school, where they and other children suffer from violence meted out but other children.

Oh but they have SEND / are in care / have a bad home-life as though that’s excuses my child being a victim. I really hope that one of the lessons learned by schools, police etc is to look at the threat or the violence and the danger to others, regardless of any ‘excuses’ the perpetrator might offer.

But where would you want the person who is violent? Around other children?

@LiviaDrusillaAugusta that's alot of what ifs. What if he grows up and isn't a risk to others. Don't make the assumption that it's a one way track. Actually his behaviour has improved to some extent with age - like I said we have only had 2 incidents in school - one where he kicked a teacher in frustration. 1 where he squeezed a kids face. Kids this age are still learning and they can change and grow. So many assumptions are made about them.
If he gets regulated at school his teacher knows how to redirect him to help him calm down and diffuse. When he's calm then she can reason with him. I'm abroad and I'm lucky that he have access to support but are also able to afford private school. Part of the problem in the UK is that with a growing SEN population, schools are not able to meet their needs and all kids have a right to have their needs met. There is a lack of support for parents. As soon as my son was diagnosed with ASD (we only waited 2 months for diagnosis) we had access to help. A state school in the UK with 25+ kids, 1 teacher, 1 assistant is not the right environment for an ASD kid but there's no funding to do anything about it. My son has been in a setting which saw his behaviour escalate. As soon as we moved him he thrived. Alot of parents don't have that option.

He didn’t ‘feel the need to arm himself’, he was a psychopath who took the knife so he could experience stabbing little girls and watching them bleed to death. He’s an animal and I couldn’t care less about his human rights. He has none as far as I’m concerned. Trying to ‘understand’ him is pointless. He’s evil.

Not locked away out of sight. Which was what happened fairly recently in history.

Do you want kids in straight jackets tied to radiators?

Strike

That’s a leap. I don’t want violent children to harm other dc. Who does?

How’s it going not locking them up? AR killed 3, so did VC, and injured 3 more. Great plan!

why the hell would you condone having a child who has split another child’s head open in a mainstream class? What on earth are you thinking?

Who’s said that?? Where were these children tied to radiators? The only time I remember seeing disabled children tied up like that was in those news reports about Romanian orphanages. They were tied to cots and beds and, presumably, radiators. No-one sat here clapping their hands and thinking that was a great idea. People were absolutely horrified.

The onus should be on the rights of law-abiding children not to be assaulted or killed. The rights of violent offenders should not be a priority at all. Fast-track them to a lifetime in prison, to keep people safe.

And it’s not a SEN thing. It’s so not a SEN thing. It’s an ‘any child who is being violent for whatever reason’ thing. I have a SEN child, never violent in their lives but attacked by all and sundry at state school for being different. We moved them to mainstream private. It’s been night and day violence wise because guess what - private school parents don’t just put up with other kids splitting their kids head open! So private school teachers don’t either.! And kids are safe and happy and learning.

There are no excuses for exposing our young children to violence. None whatsoever. There seem to be people on here saying ‘yeh but we have to let kids beat innocent young kids up because otherwise they’d end up in prison/ locked away. Take a listen to yourselves! What a disgusting attitude! Be better!

As someone with a lot of experience in special school that this repeated 'in a mainstream class' is annoying.

I am hoping it comes from a place of assuming the violence dissappears in a special school class as the child is now supported but it comes across like its fine for special school children to be exposed to violence as long as mainstream children are ok.

No school children should be exposed to violence, or at least not twice from the same offender.

It's a difficult one because if a child was regularly witnessing violence, shouting, swearing, chair throwing etc at home, the police and SS would quite rightly step in to protect them.

Yet at school, many children have to witness this in the classroom and it must be genuinely frightening.

I’m not aware of this happening in the UK recently either

yes the Romanian orphanage scandal

Where have I condoned it? I am stating facts that are well recognised. I haven't said it's in any way an acceptable situation - for anyone.

I’d assume special school teachers know restraint techniques and are allowed to use them to help protect the other children?

And feed the rhetoric that we are lazy. How dare we strike when we fine for term time holidays, we need to go to work etc. All from the parents whose children we are trying to help from such action. I’m old and fed up of being blamed for everything. I know it’s not the attitude but I'm being honest.

Has anyone suggested locking up "all those who are different"?

No

I think what has been suggested is locking up - or at least dealing differently from how we do at the moment - those who pose a real threat to others and /or seriously disrupt the lives and learning experience of other children.

Earlier today I posted a video about Brendan Depa in the US who seriously beat and injured a teaching assisitant.

He had been violent and dysregulated throughout most of his life and had various ASD and ADHD diagnoses. He was completely out of control and teachers were physically scared of him and warned never to challenge him.

He ended up in a US correctional facility - and guess what - he stopped kicking off because he'd get the shit kicked out of him by people even more scary than he was.

Now I'm not suggesting that sort of solution in the UK, but perhaps a different approach is required for those who refuse to behave in an acceptable manner - whatever their diagnoses...

@TheKittenswithMittens we’ll be stuffed if Farage and his lot get in too, given that he thinks that gun laws need to be relaxed and the ban on handguns is “ludicrous”.

You know, handguns that were banned after Dunblane.

www.thenational.scot/news/25927271.nigel-farage-said-guns-dunblane/

I completely agree OP. It’s never an excuse. It’s like we live in a society now where everyone who practices bad behaviour has an excuse. My sister was harrased by years by someone with learning difficulties, yet he was treated like the victim.

My heart goes out to the families of those poor girls in Southport. They should have never experienced this horror.

It needs investment in both mental health and SEND provision then kids causing the biggest issues could get help and any excuses removed. No child should be wrecking educational opportunities for a class full of kids. MH/Send does not trump everyone else!
It's all very well saying the issues of a child is non of anyone else's business, but in reality their problems are played out publicly making it everyones problem.
Going back to 2001, my DD was sexually assaulted in yr6 by boy in her class, the school tried the 'we can't discuss ' my reply was he's 10, the police and MP can discuss instead. Guess what, suddenly both school and parents were happy to start discussing! I knew the kid, knew he wasn't being malicious, it was impulsive but the behaviour was both illegal and unacceptable to be tolerated. We worked together to protect both kids!

What man exile said

A lot of these kids are basically bullies and need to know where the line is

It may take until adulthood for them to realise this. A lot easier in early childhood!

I’m not sure that your average playground bully does eventually become a child murderer, in all honesty.

But ARs actions weren't due to autistic meltdowns. It was planned and premeditated murder.