to find childfree comments on parenting forums insensitive?

[HazelMember]

I’ve noticed this a lot lately. Someone will post saying they’re struggling with their DC. Maybe they’re exhausted, dealing with behaviour, feeling overwhelmed, trying to keep them entertained with school holidays. childcare stuff.

Someone pops up with “this is why I’m childfree” or “so glad I dodged that bullet”

I just don’t get the need to say it. Nobody is asking you to justify your life choices. It’s not a debate about whether having children is worth it.

It would be like me going onto a forum for people who can’t have children and saying “well I’ve got three and it’s amazing”, it is just completely insensitive to the situation and adds nothing.

I’m not saying people can’t be childfree or be happy about it, obviously. But there’s a time and place. When someone is clearly struggling, it comes across a bit smug and lacking in empathy.

I post because there are lively debates about all sorts of things.
Plus AIBU is super addictive. Perhaps you can suggest some UK based alternatives though? Why would anyone join multiple separate forums just for one bit of particular advice when they could get it all here? I hate joining new forums and going through all the rigmarole of passwords and usernames before I can post. I can never think of a good username for one. Plus few other sites have the traffic this one does.

If mumsnet was really all about parents surely they'd have only posts strictly related to raising children?

When are people going to realise that AIBU is full of women who are wind up merchants that want to antagonise the OP for sport?

I say “women” as a fellow woman, because any time someone does blatantly try to wind up an OP, someone comes along to say “there’s a lot of men on the boards tonight” or “trolls”.

Nah.

It’s women, fellow mums or people who you’d think would be sympathetic, but who actually have spotted a vulnerable OP and want to deliberately share a view which could be antagonising or upsetting, but they wrap it in faux-naivety, or condescending “correction”, or whatever else can be shared in a velvet glove

even this comment will inevitably attract the “well Netmums might be more for you” etc

I love being a mother, but I think making the choice to be child free can be a difficult one even if it’s right for some people. For this reason I welcome child free perspectives, even on parenting threads.

I don’t have kids and found mumsnet because the AIBU’s were plastered over Facebook and I think they’re interesting. I avoid certain topics like TTC or pregnancy as they’re not relevant or helpful to me. Sometimes I’ll click on something else and have no interest in it and move on.

Yes some posts make me grateful for not having children as it looks like bloody hard work but I wouldn’t post that in response to someone struggling. I might say thank god I’m single if someone is moaning about a feckless husband.

It baffles me that people can’t look past the name mumsnet and see any other reason why people might join and post.

I’m childfree but was directed to mumsnet by friends (with children) out of frustration when everywhere else was being censored heavily when it comes to being gender critical and women’s rights. I don’t think I’ve seen anything about specific parenting issues on these boards except for concerns about trans children and the worries about risks of transitioning which is an issue everyone should be concerned about in my eyes - not just parents.

I have also found helpful advice and support on the mental health and relationships boards, there was lots of information when I considered weight loss injections, being a small women (4’10) I appreciated knowing there were others out there with similar struggles and the shopping boards were helpful for clothing.

I wouldn’t have been aware lots of my worrying symptoms were perimenopause if it wasn’t for mumsnet and it gave me help in approaching my GP and convincing her that despite being young that it was a possibility and after hormone levels were tested it turned out I was right.

On Christmas Day when I was at rock bottom after a series of traumatic events I was seriously considering if I wanted to carry on anymore.
Someone posted about having an Emma Thomson Christmas (the love actually scene where despite her world crumbling she wiped away her tears and had to keep going) I’m grateful to the person who started that thread and everyone else who showed me that not everyone was having a perfect magical (or even boring mundane but pleasant) Christmas.
I don’t know if I’d have been here if it wasn’t for that thread and reading about the strength, courage and pain lots of other women were experiencing.
I wiped away my tears just like Emma T and I’ve carried on.

I feel I’ve offered invaluable advice and support to parents with ND children based on my experience as a support worker and also being ND myself. I’ve had parents who have children in supported housing thank me for letting them know how much the staff care and for being understanding and sharing my own insights and experiences as a ND child.

I have posted in AIBU a few times about small amusing dilemmas and things that were genuinely worrying me as being autistic I often worry about friendship issues or social situations that I might not have handed correctly. I received so much support and was grateful it stopped my intrusive thoughts and set my mind to rest.
Also a post I made about my friends bizarre behaviour was picked up on by a few people who pointed out it might be down to a health condition - they were right and she was diagnosed last week.

Apart from all this there have a lot of laughs and it’s passed time when I’ve been bored or travelling or just had time to kill pondering about why phrases like “can I get” “picky bits” “cuppa” and “a red lip” have the power to make people feel murderous 😂. It’s also been a relief to find other people with misophonia and to enlighten other sufferers that it exists!

As a pp said this is one of the only forums in this country that has mostly women posters.
I don’t think the parenting side is the main incentive for most people on here and mumsnet is often trending on social media, comes up in Google searches, is mentioned in women’s fiction books and even on the news.

I think it’s a shame anyone criticises other people’s reasons for being here or their posts, everyone lives their lives differently and as women we all have a lot in common that’s more then our reproductive choices (or unfulfilled hopes) and a lot of advice and wisdom we could offer - even if it’s just one person on one occasion.

Instead of focusing on the name and trying to gatekeep the sight for parents the people who want the site to only be relevant for mums need to think about how limited the discussions and topics would be when there is plenty of support for mothers in other areas.

As for childfree people gloating about their choices or saying they hate children - lots of parents post about not liking children except their own and how annoying children can be. It’s not just childfree people who get irritated by a child kicking the back of their plane seat or have expressed a wish for adult only flights even!
When they post they are accused of child hating but parents can happily say they don’t want to sit in a family friendly section on a plane to be surrounded by other peoples kids!

There have been many many posts over the years I’ve been here about women hating motherhood or even regretting having children that were met with so much sympathy and support (as they should have been) but when someone on the childfree board made a post about being childfree and their own personal reasons behind it it’s been brought up a few times about how shocking it was and how the board should be banned.
Most of it was banter that had been posted multiple times by women with children and there was lots of discussion about how bitter and jealous childfree people must be but apparently that wasn’t as shocking as someone saying they were grateful they had never had children so they could have a tidy house and a lie in!

There will still be comments after I post by people faux naively wondering why childfree people are on this site (I wouldn’t be surprised if people don’t read all my post as it’s a lot longer then I planned!) and after multiple others have tried to explain their own reasons. It’s just another excuse to criticise other others choices or some people genuinely don’t realise that not everyone thinks exactly like they do.

I think it’s a shame that for childfree women who find this site valuable and useful that it’s another form of exclusion that we face constantly because we have made a decision that even in this day and age appears to be taboo to a lot of people.
I agree that it’s not kind to act smug about being childfree when a mother is struggling but as plenty of others have pointed out this scenario of someone posting something unrelated to the OP happens on pretty much every thread, it always seems to be treated as a big scandal when childfree people act satisfied with their choices but we do face a lot of stigma over it and have to regularly defend our choices which can come across as defensive.

It would be great if mumsnet was accepted more as a woman’s forum rather than a parenting one and a place for women to impart support, advice and life experiences on all issues we face - including - but not mainly parenting.
There really isn’t another forum like it unless you head to Reddit which is heavily populated by American teenagers or TRA’s looking to start a war by any mention of women’s rights.
But if people can’t see it as anything more then the small site it was started as where posters knew each others first names and met up IRL then it’ll continue to isolate women who might be at crisis point I was like last Christmas who feel they have nothing to contribute because the parenting section isn’t relevant to them.

I also find it ironic that “it takes a village” is mentioned so many times and yet when a village is offered online it’s rejected because despite women on here being child psychologists, teachers, social workers, have raised their own siblings or just aren’t able to have children their input is worthless.

@SmellycatSmelllycat well said. I’m glad you found this site at a time when you needed it and it was a help to you to carry on.

My husband and I chose to not have children, but occasionally a person who doesn't know us will assume that we have children and then ask us well why don't you have any.
It is actually nobody's business as to whether you do or don't have children.
I don't know how mums/dads do it to be honest, so much respect to you.

But she will never know, for example, what it’s like to be without children in her 60s. Or what a marriage without children lasting several decades is like. She only knows what her life was like before she had children.

I’m here because Mumsnet was mentioned on another board I was on, it was said that it’s fun and that you don’t have to be a mum to post here. So I came to have a look round, liked what I saw and stayed. And I have to say that I was originally childless not by choice but through infertility, but made a choice,after my grieving was done, to embrace childfree life. Mumsnet has been instrumental in helping me to do that and I will always be glad I came here, it’s been truly life enhancing. Like @iamnotalemon, some posts have made me see how hard parenting can be.

Very well said

You explained, much more succinctly then I did, what I was trying to say. And it's not meant as a veiled criticism at anyone at all. Everyone has different life experiences

As for childfree people gloating about their choices or saying they hate children - lots of parents post about not liking children except their own and how annoying children can be.

Yes. I've seen threads where parents almost seem to treat it as a competition to say how much they dislike children other than their own - as though this makes them somehow cooler than people who like children generally.

As a childfree woman, I'm something of the opposite. Of course, children can be annoying in ways particular to children (as adults can be annoying in ways particular to adults) but I have no blanket dislike of children, I take them as they come, as individuals.

It's the idea of my own children that I don't like. The idea of versions of myself carrying half my genes, possibly picking up more than half of all the mannerisms, speech patterns etc. that make me cringe from the outside in if they're replayed to me on something like a Teams Call. I couldn't bear to have that around me 24/7.

And never being able to walk away from generally annoying behaviours, like the relief you feel when you get off a train that's had a crying baby or out of control toddler in the carriage - if it was your child, having to take all that home with you - I couldn't cope. Hats off to those who can, but I struggle enough keeping my own life on track without being responsible for one or more young lives.

The blunt truth is that if I'd had children they'd either have grown up very damaged or been removed from my care. 'They fuck you up, your mum and dad' - I don't want that on my conscience.

I don’t think for a moment anyone is fussed about a childfree person discussing politics or books or beauty products or anything like that. But there are a lot of weirdly aggressive childfree posters who are all over the boards on threads that clearly are about or for parents.

I think the childfree board is the worst thing that’s happened on here and I’m quite disappointed MN put it up.

But the idea of a board is that childfree people can express their views without encroaching on parenting threads, and in theory without having to debate their position with parents (though in practice parents do post there, some respectfully which is fine, but others being goady).

And please remember the board is also a place for people who are childfree not by choice - by circumstance, infertility or loss. It's a place for people who want to come to terms and be at peace with the idea of a childfree life, without parents popping up saying things like 'have you thought of adopting' - instead being in a community of people who have chosen this life or are at peace with it and can offer advice and support without it being from the perspective that you must expect your life to be second-best if you don't have children.

Well said.

I am definitely going to call out the next dickish comment I see on a post made by a new mum who's struggling, or by a parent struggling with SEN kids or a difficult teen.

Parents making dickish comments on the Childfree board are rightly called out, so I think it's fair, yes?

Of course it’s flipping fair. In an ideal world people would back out of threads where they can’t add value. I don’t go on any type of parenting board on here. I’ve got nothing to contribute. If someone posts on Aibu about, for example, poor behaviour they’ve witnessed from a child, I feel I can add some similar behaviour I’ve witnessed. I also feel I can post in the cf board to celebrate my decision. We’re told we’re wrong constantly, why can’t we say we weren’t?

Mumsnet is no longer solely a parenting forum. I use it (as child free by choice) as its the forum that seems to have the most women who offer advice on a whole range of topics. And I've provided advice myself. So that point is ridiculous. However I do agree that posters on both sides (children and child free) who show no empathy or make unkind comments to others are sad people. Just because I don't have or want kids doesn't mean I don't appreciate how hard but rewarding parenting is for my friends. Same way they are also able to appreciate my life is full and lovely without kids.

Basically a bit of compassion and kindness would go a long way for some nasty posters and they are likely nasty about a much broader range of topics if they're that bitter generally.

Let me give an example of what I mean.

I had terrible PPD after my second child, who did not sleep for two years.
I often see posts here by a new mum who's struggling, and then the occasional post by someone saying " This is why I never had kids". That non-sleeping baby is now 21, healthy and happy, and looking back I realise that the hard bit was fleeting. But at the time I thought it was the biggest mistake I ever made.
These kind of remarks can send a new mum over the edge and make them very anxious. What they need is reassurance from other mums that this too shall pass.

I agree. I don’t know what type of person gets a kick out of making comments like that (on posts like that). Doesn’t mean I think all cf women would say the same or should receive shitty comments about their lifestyle because of it.

That was twattish. I have never made this sort of comment on that sort of thread. I don’t think anyone is saying it’s ok. And I’m glad things worked out for you.

However, neither is it ok to go over to the MWC board and say things like “you’ll never know real love” or “who’s going to look after you when you’re old?” to be read by people who are struggling to come to terms with never having children.

Sure but there is a board for infertility. And if you were struggling with infertility, I’d have thought the childfree board the last place you’d go actually.

I have no issue at all with the idea Mumsnet is not solely a place for parents, but I think demanding a space on a place that was originally set up with that raison d’etra is a sign of how demanding and how forceful some of the childfree by choice posters are. And just like with the sex topic it inevitably seeps out onto the boards as a whole and changes the ethos of the place.

I'm sure they did, but walking up to someone who's struggling and saying to their face "that's why I didn't have kids" and walking off woukd be rude, right? It's the same on a thread.

And I agree with a pp it isn't just on those threads.

It's like being behind a keyboard gives people an empathy bypass.

It's like, "I could say something kind, I could say nothing, but actually I like being nasty when there's no repurcussions so I'll take out today's stresses here!!"

As I have already said, such posts are not ok.
But those posts are called out. Probably because convos aren't as busy or fast moving.

i think there is a difference in that you’d have to actually seek the childfree board to make those comments, whereas parenting issues tend to be all over the boards and as such the ‘oh thank god I didn’t have children / so glad I’m sterilised / your life sounds miserable, thank god that’s not me’ comments are everywhere and encourage others to join in.

That may not be fair on an individual basis as I agree both types of comments are unacceptable. But from the perspective of the boards changing I think the latter is perhaps more relevant.