to find childfree comments on parenting forums insensitive?

[HazelMember]

I’ve noticed this a lot lately. Someone will post saying they’re struggling with their DC. Maybe they’re exhausted, dealing with behaviour, feeling overwhelmed, trying to keep them entertained with school holidays. childcare stuff.

Someone pops up with “this is why I’m childfree” or “so glad I dodged that bullet”

I just don’t get the need to say it. Nobody is asking you to justify your life choices. It’s not a debate about whether having children is worth it.

It would be like me going onto a forum for people who can’t have children and saying “well I’ve got three and it’s amazing”, it is just completely insensitive to the situation and adds nothing.

I’m not saying people can’t be childfree or be happy about it, obviously. But there’s a time and place. When someone is clearly struggling, it comes across a bit smug and lacking in empathy.

And they got comments such as “the thing is, it’s different when they’re your own. And that’s something you’ll never know”.

Penis beaker reported in the press brought me here originally. Apologies @HisNotHes - I didn’t realise discussion on penis beakers was restricted to parents only. Lesson learnt.

The fundamental reason they is they’re self-absorbed dicks with no tact, who can only see the post through the prism of their own insecurity about being childfree.

There is (obviously) nothing wrong with being childfree. I would’ve been perfectly happy being childfree, in the same way I’m also happy with being a parent. However, if you’re genuinely happy and comfortable with your life choices, you don’t spend all your time trying to prove to yourself and others that you made the right choice. You just get on with it.

Don't you think that goes both ways? Some parents seem to feel very insecure about their choices, otherwise they wouldn't spend so much time on the MWC board telling us we're wrong.

I am more likely to feel like using tact towards someone who doesn't have (and wants) something that I have, than someone who spends their free time running down my very mainstream life choice to have children.

(And even though it is not tactful to go on about it, logic dictates that people with children have experienced both having and not having children so are in a better place to compare than those without.)

This. Some parents don’t understand all the drama at times. But isn't that the point of discussion boards?

(And even though it is not tactful to go on about it, logic dictates that people with children have experienced both having and not having children so are in a better place to compare than those without.)

Oh is that why there are mothers barging into the child free board then? Because they know best?

Everyones grateful for their pearls of wisdom I’m sure 😂

You have experienced life before children. You have not experienced life without children. So no, you’re not actually in a better position to compare.

I don't have children by choice and am now kind of old, but completely get that wanting and having them is perfectly normal and reasonable (and a good thing for the human race, tbh😁)

If I've ever given advice or support to people with parenting issues I hope it hasn't been done in a twattish way. Noone exists in a vacuum and even those of us without kids can have much younger siblings, step children and grandchildren etc.

Wouldn't dream of crowing about my childfree state though, personal choice, as anyone telling childless people they are wrong shouldn't.

To whom are you referring here? Particular posters, or MN's entire childfree contingent?

Being a parent clearly comes with sort of tolerance for others, empathy and kind nature that makes them ideal to shape the next generation.

I would’ve thought it was obviously a reference to the kind of childfree posters the OP refers to in her opening post. So no, not “MN’s entire childfree contingent”.

You could try Penisnet. It's great, if that's your bag.

I thought it was for people WITH mums. That might where some of the confusion comes from.

Well, there is a tagline 'by parents, for parents' to clear that up, but the original focus of the site as 'parenting advice' has expanded to include many topics that have nothing to do with whether you're a parent or not, which is why I struggle to understand why childfree people are criticised for being here.

OK, but for me that falls under the heading 'some people are dicks' which applies equally to parents and the childfree.

For all anyone knows, the posts that are outrageously goady specifically to parents may well come from trolls, pure and simple, who might not even be childfree.

I'm not certain I fully agree with you on this issue. I'm not criticising - I do see your point - but in my mind it perhaps centres too much on motherhood being the ultimate experience and there being a clear "before" and "after" which I don't think there is. You (and everyone) can't imagine their life taking a different path because philosophically it's too hard. So reflecting on other people's situations you can only ever emphasise, irrespective of your current life situation. And that applies to everyone. Does that make sense?

Indeed they do.

And MN is a microcosm of the world: far more childfree women are judged, commented on, asked rude questions about being child free than women with children are asked about having chidren.

The latter is generally seen as "natural" and the "right thing"; the former is generally seen as "unnatural" and odd.

I absolutely understand that my life experience / the shape of my life is not everyone's - and also @KimberleyClark 's about before vs without. For me personally it is very much 'before and after' and so on which I don't think is unusual

For MN specifically I post on a range of topics and obviously having children or not is irrelevant to many of them. For parenting topics however I do post as a parent and feel it is fair enough to make the assumption that I am talking to other parents or people with a professional interest in children

But that’s a numbers’ game isn’t it? MN attracts far more mothers than it does child free people. I wonder what the “stats” would say if you looked at it proportionately?

But this statement is absolutely true. You can’t know, really know, unless you’ve had your own children. How could you if you haven’t?

I lived with my nieces and nephews since they were babies until nearly secondary school. I babysat ALL the time. I thought I knew everything about having kids.

It turns out I knew how to look after them, but the emotions that hit you about your OWN child is something that you cannot prepare for, or have any idea what it feels like. You can’t know what it’s like to have, or how you can feel for your own child, if you’ve never had one.

Of course she has. Life without children is when, you know, you don’t have any children - like BEFORE you have kids.

I had a life without children until I was 35. I nearly didn’t have any because of infertility. I don’t see my time before having children as just “before I had a child”. That’s not how I’d define it - it was my life without children.

Meh, I’m child-free and I would say my life is pretty stressful. The difference is I own my choice - I picked a notoriously difficult career and trapped myself in it by emigrating and getting stuck on a non-transferable visa. I’m a fool who now has to lie in the miserable bed I’ve made for myself.

The issue some people have with the threads where the OP is complaining about how hard ‘3 under 3’ is, is there’s very rarely any responsibility taken. In a country with sex education from a young age, widely available contraception and one of the most permissive abortion laws in the world, ‘3 under 3’ is very, very, very rarely not a choice.

But everyone’s experience of love is subjective. You cannot know the depth or breadth of the love someone else is feeling. People can’t even agree on a description of what love feels like.

If all parents felt this wonderful, transformative, ultra-special love that we’re told about, then we wouldn’t have Disney Dads that rarely ever see their kids, or parents who abandon them altogether, we wouldn’t have the myriad of threads we see on the relationships forum where women are putting their desire for a relationship ahead of the needs of their children, we wouldn’t have examples of parents neglecting and abusing their kids and we wouldn’t have cases of parents myrdetkng their kids, save for rare circumstances like serious mental illness.

Living with without children ^for now* and ultimately planning/hoping to have children someday is very different to living life without children ever and knowing you intend to live your entire life that way. There are vastly different things to be taken into consideration.