How to handle my son's troubling far-right views and online influence

[TheCatCushions]

DS (14) is extremely bright, highly intelligent and adhd/autistic. He has recently been coming out with troubling views about wanting the UK to be all white again like in the 1950s, he talks about immigration and closing our borders and stopping the boats etc and doodles pictures of Hitler with worrying slogans. He has admitted to saying certain things deliberately to shock but he genuinely believes that the UK should be all white and compares us to say, Zimbabwe remaining all black.

He has not been brought up to think like this and I am concerned that he is going down a rabbit hole online. I teach him the benefits of other cultures and how the UK has evolved, what it means to be British has changed over time and that we are now multicultural. Although he is highly intelligent, he is also very black and white in his thinking.

He also believes that we should go back to the 1940s where it comes to gender roles and women need to stay at home and men be the providers. He also talks about feminism meaning women that hate men. I try my best to gently correct these views and question why he believes this.

Does anyone have any advice on how to approach this? Thank you.

The rise of the right is a knee jerk reaction to immigration, it was pretty obvious this was going to happen way back when Blair didn’t put a number on Eastern European arrivals. I write this as the daughter of not white immigrants I sadly don’t know the answer and I can't hide my face.

But some teens do deliberately push against whatever their parents views are. Plus as you are I’m guessing a liberal minded sort then your kindness and tolerance has sort of worked against you. Western liberalism is part of the reason for the rise of the right all over Europe, people by and large never contemplate unintended consequences. Especially liberals and the left.

My children were raised with hardcore Asian parenting mixed with DH liberal attitudes. That in itself caused some issues between DH and I. Do not be messing with my culture because that’s what multiculturalism brings you. The lovely food but also the other bits that are bad in western eyes but you are all too nice to say anything because you worry you will be seen as racist.

The INCEL stuff has been coming for years as well. Women just do not need men like they used to and that’s great but it marginalising young men who know deep down they are not actually that great a catch. I do not blame feminism for this I celebrate it but it’s an unintended consequence again. Look to your older male relatives I bet loads of them wouldn’t do so well these days. No one would have married my FIL in this day and age as he was obnoxious and I have no idea how he managed to have such a great son, my DH. I am the last generation that was raised to feel you should marry.

Huge and rapid societal shifts in a small space of time it’s always going to marginalise some, dangerous times. You can try your natural soft approach or go super hardcore and remove stuff. I removed my DS gaming console because he refused to regulate the hours when he was a similar age. He hated me for that period and told me. Just prepare for yourself to be hated briefly. Embrace it and know you are doing the right thing.

I was wondering about this too. The school will now all about this.

This is spot on. He’s not highly intelligent. He’s obviously been allowed on YouTube etc for hours. Ban his access and get in touch with PREVENT.

That’s what I struggle with is “arguing” back and having the facts to hand and knowing how to answer in the moment.

I’ll look up PREVENT. Thank you. On the flip side he has learned a lot online from reliable sources such as history sites and about other countries, it’s on TIKTOK I believe these views are coming from but it’s hard to know.

A 14 year old boy however intelligent he is does not remotely know all there is to know about politics

Don't be thinking you are somehow less knowledgable than him. He's just got the brash know it all confidence teenagers have. He's not better than you

completely agree. You see this dangerous assertion often, “highly intelligent “. Absolute nonsense.

get him off social media, get help from the organisations listed and speak to the school.

You don’t need to know the answers to question things. You could say “oh, I’m surprised that’s the case; where did you read that?” And look at the source together and discuss. You could suggest to him that you research things together and look at reputable sources which might counter the things he has been reading independently.

When it comes to gender roles - does he think you would be better off ‘in the kitchen?’ And does he think about what that means for your life experience? Does he have sisters or are there any other women he is close to? Ie. Does he think about the real world implications of what he is saying or just attracted to the abstract idea of ‘old fashioned’ gender roles?

I've just found this resource which gives some clear answers to five far-right talking points, this might help as a starting point: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/countering-radical-right/radical-right-narratives-and-how-counter-them/

If he loves history would you think of bringing him to Berlin and showing him where these types of views can lead if they are held across a population. Hitler’s bunker in Berlin and the Jewish museum and the concentration camp just outside of Berlin can really give insight into when a whole group of people start falling for these ideologies the fallout there can be.

Migration is not new, people have migrated all throughout all of human history to get a better life and “white” people are not around a particularly long time and are not native to Europe anyway. Maybe use his interest and curiosity on history in the real world to help him get some context on what he is saying. And yes get him offline.

he knows all there is to know about politics

He really doesn't, he's 14. Just because he's bright doesn't mean he has depth of understanding and certainly doesn't mean hateful views have to be tolerated, let alone respected. You sound a little in awe of him and rather than trying to counter his rigid thinking, I'd spend the time firmly guiding him away from racist and misogynist internet rabbit holes.

At the moment you have some control of what he accesses and how he does so. You won't have for long.

He is 14 so no job.

OP I'd start with challenging him to live with no food that comes from other cultures. I think that will mean no potatoes, rice, noodles. Depending on how far to take it, it will be parsnips and herbs with suet and meat. Maybe challenge him to start living a medieval diet with him doing the research. I don't know what the family situation is but if you are earning, nothing from your pocket. After all that's the life he wants, to be self sufficient himself.

Zimbabwe is not all black?! Also does he know about Colonisation and what Britain would be without it? This age group is heavily targeted - it’s very worrying.

I know, I also have rather 'one thing/a different thing' thought patterns. I also have a lot of professional experience of working with autistic people. But I'm not a racist idiot. It is not an excuse.

Another thing I might do in your situation is ask questions rather than counter. If he is getting all this from sporadic short videos, he might just be parroting them withiut deeper understanding because they 'feel' right. You could appeal to his intelligence and logix by asking questions. I.e. women were happier when they didn't work. You could say "Hmm that doesn't sound right to me as a woman. Why do you think that's the case? Is there any data or evidence on that? What sources help us to test whether that's true or not?"

My son went to school with a boy like your son.

He’d regularly end up in trouble with teachers (and other pupils) for using racial slurs etc

My son’s theory was that this was a defence mechanism and way to get attention because his mum is nothing like that (I know her well) and his younger sister has mainstream views on that kind of thing. He often ended up in physical fights out of school and my son thinks he enjoyed people talking about him in a “Can you believe what he’s now done?” way.

He’s probably being fed this by algorithms that are only going to get more extreme and end up with the worst content like holocaust denial. If he’s not careful, he will end up in jail for hate. How would he feel about that?

I would also come up with some counter points. Eg Hitler would have ordered the murder of your son for having autism. He wouldn’t want autistic genes being passed down to future generations and would consider people like him to be subhuman. How could he support that?

It’s ok to have views that differ from you like immigration should be controlled but his views are so extreme that his peers must be avoiding him?

Britain was not all white in the 1950s. He has swallowed a load of false, hateful propaganda and has been radicalised online. This is way beyond 'gentle questioning' - hardcore racism and misogyny is not a valid viewpoint worthy of respect that you can debate with. It's an extremist and dangerous mindset. The school will have information on PREVENT but I think they're quite overwhelmed - still definitely worth trying. This is a situation whereby he needs to be taken off the internet altogether and educated in how to question information rather than swallowing it wholesale. He needs to be able to evaluate and think critically about sources, manipulation and presentation of information. These are difficult skills for teenagers to master and he may be more vulnerable because of his autism. But you won't get anywhere while he still has access to this persuasive, poisonous material. He needs to come offline.

At work, we had to do ‘Prevent’ training. I think that’s more to do with radicalisation and terrorism, but there maybe something here you can use.

https://www.educateagainsthate.com/prevent-training/

Also, have you watched Louis Theroux ‘Manosphere’ to give you an insight.

It’s just so easy to fall down a rabbit hole online. It’ll be TikTok and YouTube, it’s absolutely rife with it. DH’s uncle is a middle aged man, also well educated and intelligent but he’s fallen down the hole too so much so his wife of 35 years has left him…

Since he’s 14, you have every right to go through his devices and find out exactly what he’s accessing. Also check Discord if he’s on this- my DS uses it and he’s told us there are some ‘sub forums’ filled with Neo-Nazis. It’s frightening. If you find where he’s accessing the content, consider blocking the app.

You also need to gently question his rhetoric until it falls apart. The conspiracies are always so full of holes they drop apart immediately when you throw actual logic in the mix.

And just to add, we're a very liberal family and my work is related to feminist causes so we have always had discussions around it. My neurodivergent teenage sons are very interested in politics and history, very strongly liberal and are horrified by Reform, Farage, Trump (and obviously Hitler!) so this is not an inevitable consequence of liberal parents or people being too feminist or however else people want to blame the left for the rise of facism rather than blaming, you know, actual fascists. Internet propaganda is really powerful and anyone can be vulnerable to radicalisation.

Just to say, what the OP is describing is radicalisation. And far-right terrorism is a major threat. This is exactly the kind of thing Prevent are supposed to be dealing with.

Is he socially isolated, OP? Does he have friends, hobbies, activities? If he does have friends, are any non-white? Girls? I believe internet algorithms are particularly dangerous with children, and particularly boys, who struggle socially.

If that's the case, in addition to talking to him and looking at Prevent, could you do anything to foster social development?

Ah, the dangers of unregulated internet access when kids are old enough to read but too young to have judgment. Not all views are equally valid, and to be engaged with. I presume you have seen Adolescence and are familiar with the literature on the harms of social media? Please do the wider society a favor and restrict your son's access to social media.

eerrrr calling a child, particularly an autistic one, a ‘racist idiot’ is not right.

This can definitely help soften things. A sport where genders are more mixed within the club - like climbing, rowing, tennis over football or rugby - could go a long way. If he's at a boys school, or a fairly homogenous one, maybe think about sixth form options that broaden his exposure slightly.

You do need to get on top of this though. He clearly doesn't know everything, or he wouldn't be thinking like this.