to think some women feel entitled to free childcare from their DM/MILs just because they had help themselves?

[timetoban]

I’ve noticed this more and more lately on MN. Some women seem to assume that because their own mum/MIL head help with childcare that they’re now automatically owed the same from their DM or MIL. Why?

Just because one generation chose (or was able) to help doesn’t mean the next one is obliged to step in. Circumstances are completely different now. A lot of grandmothers are still working, have their own lives, health issues or don’t want to be tied into regular childcare. That should be allowed without guilt, expectations or criticism.

What bothers me is the expectation. I've seen people get annoyed or even fall out with their DM/MIL for not doing regular pick-ups and committing to regular childcare.

There is also a double standard. The pressure seems to fall much more on grandmothers than grandfathers. Even if a grandfather is retired and not working, the expectation is not there or much less for him.

Of course, if grandparents want to help and everyone’s happy with the arrangement, that’s great. I am not talking about those situations.

Also I know it is not ALL women.

In what way is it unfair to state bare facts? If you don't make time to regularly see your grandchildren, then you have to accept that you are going to see them less than if you did regularly make time to see them. You are literally saying, it's completely unreasonable to say that grandparents should inconvenience themselves to get to spend time with their grandchildren, but parents, who are more likely to both be working full time and have more time-consuming commitments relating to having a young family, should inconvenience themselves and sacrifice limited time on the weekends to make sure grandchildren have a good relationship with their grandparents.

If you are unwilling or unable to look after your grandchildren alone (which is not necessarily "childcare", as in an alternative to paid nursery or after-school clubs), you WILL see them less than if you're relying on your children to sacrifice a weekend day to bring them to you at your convenience. If it's not unreasonable for grandparents to refuse to sacrifice a free day to care for children alone, how can the reverse be unreasonable or retaliatory? People just want to spend their free days off work with their nuclear family generally.

You’ve ignored it so I’m going to say it again but I hope you don’t then expect your children to care for you when you’re old and can’t care for yourself? Obviously not all grandparents can help out but if they can then I think they should in some capacity, and yes I know you keep saying it’s grandmothers not grandfathers but grandmothers also still expect their children to care for them in old age

Here is an example:

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/our-impact/campaigning/care-in-crisis/breaking-point-report/

• There are 1.25 million sandwich carers in the UK. These are people caring for an older relative as well as bringing up a family. 68% (850,743) are women.

Yet again I'm going to have to find the link to the government's statistics that show that vastly more grandparents do regular childcare now, then previous generations did.

The kind of care that grandparents did in the past, would have been weekend or holidays. It was rarely to facilitate parents working,

I'm 70. As a kid I spent a lot of time with my grandparents. But it was during holidays and weekends. And they lived locally.

When I had my kids, I had no help. My generation was told by Norman Tebbit to 'get on their bikes' to get jobs during a period of high unemployment. So DH and I ended up 1.5 - 2.5 his from our parents. Absolutely no-one I knew had grandparent help.

Now I'm a grandparent. My DD and her DH worked shifts, which were mostly arranged to jigsaw together, but when they didn't, I'd do irregular childcare. Now one of them works M -F and the little one goes to nursery, so I'm needed less.

I'm also finding it increasingly exhausting. My grandmother was 42 when I was born. My mum was 53 when her grandchildren were born. I was 64 when my grandchildren were born.
At 70, I adore my DGDs, and love to spend time with them. But my energy levels have dropped and I'm having some health issues. Regular childcare isn't the possibility that it could have been even a year ago.

It's too much to expect reliable, long term, regular work-related childcare from people of my age.
It's also unfair to punish loving grandparents for not doing so, by reducing their access to to their DGCs.

Feel like AIBU has been taken over by grandma’s whining about being expected to do childcare (this is the third thread in a week!) and benefits bashing. Weird.

So 1.25 million women children at home also need to take care of an elderly relative. I’m not sure this is the statistic to in anyway back up your argument 🤣

https://www.informationnow.org.uk/article/grandparent-issues/

There's a link to Hansard in that article, for the source of those statistics

True. But there are parents on Mumsnet whining about their children's grandparents every single day.

I cant provide structured childcare for my dgd as I work full time but help out where I can. I took the whole week off for easter to help out look after her as the usual wrap around wasnt available and was happy to do so.
When my dd’s were young I worked part time and between my dm and friend I never had to pay for childcare, things were really tight so I paid in kind. For my dm i helped with doing jobs around her house that she hated doing. For my friend I done her ironing, she hated this job, and minded hers when needed. She had 4 under 5 so appreciated the help and thought my 2 never added more to her load the few hours she had them.
My dd with the dgd does appreciate when I help out but doesnt feel entitled.
My older dd doesnt need childcare now but I did do the majority of free childcare for her oldest ds as I was in a position to do it then, not so much with her youngest ds and was never expected to, just occasionally.
If I didnt work full time I wouldnt be happy about having to childmind fulltime but I am older now and have other interests outside of the home and would hate to feel tied.

So you're saying that the grandparents that doesn't offer to do childcare (even if they could) should be prioritised over the grandparents that do regular childcare so that they spend equal time with the grandchildren? In effect, rewarding the grandparents that don't put themselves out or offer to help in order to keep things 'fair'?

My dad’s dead but thanks 🙄

I thought this is what Gransnet is for?!

The negative feelings for GP’s not ‘stepping up’ is partly because DADS are still not stepping up! Who goes part-time? Who picks up an ill child from nursery? Who works full-time and still does all the childcare/admin/housework? If there truly was a 50/50 split a lot of this aggrievement towards gps would go away. And it’s usually towards MiL if the latest diatribes are anything to go by.

Well said 👏

I will never understand people who choose to became parents and then expect family members to give up their free time to help them manage that choice.

I think we just expect our mothers to help because, generationally, that's what women did - they helped one another out with childcare, domestic chores etc.

IMO, we are all now very selfish and helping our own families seems to be an act that generates resentment.

It's actually quite sad to see our society break down, as far as family support and values go, but until people stop acting like we're here to be everything for strangers and ourselves, and nothing for our families, this is where we'll be.

Edited to add: I didn't have help from my mother, because we don't leave near to one another but I know she would have helped me and I will certainly be helping out my own children when the time comes.

This thread looks suspiciously like a similar one and the OP writes as such. The bolding especially 🤔

I will never understand how some families are so distant, perhaps it’s cultural. For us it’s completely normal for other members to be involved in dcs lives, sometimes too much!

And yet you have only focussed on WOMEN/MUMS feeling entitled to free childcare from grandmothers. You keep saying only grandmothers are expected to give free childcare etc but you’re doing the same thing in your thread by only focussing on women. What about people’s sons expecting their parents to provide childcare?

Its also unfair to punish loving grandparents for not doing so, by reducing their access to their DGCs

I don’t know anyone who thinks “my parents don’t do childcare so I will refuse to see them at the weekends as retaliation”. When people talk about their parents seeing the children less because they don’t do childcare, they just mean because you will obviously see the children less if you aren’t seeing them a fixed day every week.

We've got three children that were in nursery from 1 yo to school age and we spent best part of 70k in total over those nursery years and never had any help.

The stress of either me or my my husband having to drop everything to collect poorly children was horrible, or having to drop at nursery as early as possible and fight the traffic to get to work for a 9am start. Our careers were pretty much put on hold for those years.

I'm not saying we were entitled to childcare from anyone (my mum still worked fulltime and I don't think my MIL wanted to be tied to committing to providing childcare for us - it was easier to do it for her daughter because her daughter lived with her), but if I can, I will not put my children through the stress and financial burden of those early years if i'm im the privileged position of being healthy and retired.

Even if I can commit to just one day a week it will save them hundreds a month and take away some of the stress.

Also, both my MIL and own mum never had any help with childcare because neither of them worked when raising childcare. Looking back none of my friends mum's did either. As a result I think a lot of older people don't think to ask if we need help because they never had any - i dont think its malicious. They just haven't thought about it and don't necessarily realise how different things are now.

I’m late sixties now and never had children through choice. I can see why people don’t want to interrupt their later life looking after the children that their children have chosen to have. If you have them, be prepared to look after them.

I think we just expect our mothers to help because, generationally, that's what women did - they helped one another out with childcare, domestic chores etc.

IMO, we are all now very selfish and helping our own families seems to be an act that generates resentment.

So just because that is what women did and now some do not want to now, they are selfish.

Men can keep bowing out then?

Agree and look to the men to look after them rather than dumping it on the grandmothers.

I agree that i dont think it's about punishment but a result of the natural way relationships develop. I think its a case of closeness developing due to frequency and shared involvement.

If one set of grandparents is helping regularly, you see them more and develop a better relationship which in turn creates goodwill and makes it easier to organise time together outside of childcare.

If another grandparent isn't involved in that way you just don't have those regular touch points. Its not necessarily a conscious decision to see them less but the relationship might be a bit more distant simply because of less contact.