to think some women feel entitled to free childcare from their DM/MILs just because they had help themselves?

[timetoban]

I’ve noticed this more and more lately on MN. Some women seem to assume that because their own mum/MIL head help with childcare that they’re now automatically owed the same from their DM or MIL. Why?

Just because one generation chose (or was able) to help doesn’t mean the next one is obliged to step in. Circumstances are completely different now. A lot of grandmothers are still working, have their own lives, health issues or don’t want to be tied into regular childcare. That should be allowed without guilt, expectations or criticism.

What bothers me is the expectation. I've seen people get annoyed or even fall out with their DM/MIL for not doing regular pick-ups and committing to regular childcare.

There is also a double standard. The pressure seems to fall much more on grandmothers than grandfathers. Even if a grandfather is retired and not working, the expectation is not there or much less for him.

Of course, if grandparents want to help and everyone’s happy with the arrangement, that’s great. I am not talking about those situations.

Also I know it is not ALL women.

You say this as if these children are just strangers to them, it’s not just some random children that their children decided to have.. it’s their grand children.. their close relatives.. human beings that exist partly because of them. I’m not saying that that means they have to provide childcare for them but it’s not a case of ‘interrupting’ their later years to look after some random children.

Everybody wants to spend time with others 'when it suits them' surely? People have busy lives and it's not unreasonable to want to see your GC at a time you're available to do so (if they can be free then of course) rather than at a time it suits their parents because it's childcare. We wouldn't act that way about any other relationship. We don't say "I'm annoyed with my friend because she only wants to see me when she's not busy and I want her to see me on a Thursday so she can give me a lift to yoga" would we?
Pulling out of babysitting agreements is wrong of course.

Everybody wants to spend time with others 'when it suits them' surely? People have busy lives and it's not unreasonable to want to see your GC at a time you're available to do so (if they can be free then of course) rather than at a time it suits their parents because it's childcare. We wouldn't act that way about any other relationship.

I see my family & friends regularly not necessarily when it just suits me. Relationships involve time & effort & compromise.

But on that basis, your generation must be responsible for the cost of living crisis, world wars and escalating climate change. The fact that undesirable things happen during someone's youth and middle years doesn't mean that person wanted or supported them.Have you made deliberate political choices to increase the cost of living? I certainly haven't.

@Feelingworried26 that argument doesn’t stack up due to demographic changes. policies in this country is focused on the grey vote

There is also a double standard. The pressure seems to fall much more on grandmothers than grandfathers. Even if a grandfather is retired and not working, the expectation is not there or much less for him.

You are right of course, but I do find it interesting that the title of this thread is about "mothers" expecting childcare from their mothers and MILs, as if childcare is purely the mother's responsibility and nothing to do with the father...

OP why do you think it’s only women that feel entitled to free childcare? What about the men. Your generations’ sons?

Unsure why you’re going for working women here

From what I’ve seen , heard and read it’s a bit more complicated than that.

Like only/mostly asking to see the child on a day when they’re in childcare. Or when the family is on a big/nice day out . Or when the parents are busy and they know that. Coupled with constant complaints that “we never get to see her/him.” . It’s a very specific set of circumstances .

To use your analogy, it would be like Jane always asking to see you on your working days, or only meeting up for the Zumba class when you can give her a lift , then complaining “I barely see you anymore!”.

You can’t complain about double standards when your thread is about women/mums. What about the men/dads?

fact remains that all my life a lot of things have been happening that I am opposed to and spoke out against, and I resent being told that all this time I have been feathering my own nest. That isn't how things work.

It is the women complaining when their DM/MIL won't provide childcare when they benefitted it from themselves.

Words like hypocritical are used. Men stay out of the discussion. When do you see anywhere online where men are complaining that their DM/MIL will not do childcare and they had help themselves?

Where are men complaining that their DF/FIL will not do childcare?

And don't forget that a generation ago there were many more 'latchkey' kids - the kids (often aged under 10) that fended for themselves until one of the DPs came home.

Nowadays many here would be putting in a call to social services or the NSPCC
if they knew of a 'latchkey' kid.

Well they don’t, because their wives do it. But that doesn’t change the fact that you yourself are focusing on women in your own thread title..

It is the women complaining when their DM/MIL won't provide childcare when they benefitted it from themselves.

Words like hypocritical are used. Men stay out of the discussion. When do you see anywhere online where men are complaining that their DM/MIL will not do childcare and they had help themselves?

Where are men complaining that their DF/FIL will not do childcare?

Sure, but those grandparents don’t get to complain that their grandchildren are closer to their other set of grandparents, or that their friends see their grandchildren way more often than they do 🤷🏼‍♀️

I am not talking about families choosing to be involved in peoples lives.

I am talking about a sense of entitlement.

What’s it’s like in your family OP? How does childcare work?

what entitlement have you experienced with your own children?

is your position about entitlement to childcare or is it more that you’re annoyed men aren’t discussing this in the same way.

maybe they are but there are less men on MN??!

you and reluctantGM need to get together and have a good old natter (or maybe you’re the same person?)

I commented on the other similar thread, that I found it hypocritical of my dad (it was, incidentally, my dad for me) to announce upon my siblings' pregnancies that he had no intention of being "burdened" by childcare.

Completely his decision, of course, but I also have the right to consider it hypocritical given the vast amount of childcare my parents received from grandparents when I was a child (multiple full days/week, holiday help, multiple 1 week+ holidays over the years).

It isn't even entitlement for me - I had moved away so it wouldn't have been practical for help with my children in any case.

And regarding the men v woman part, of course I completely agree the onus of childcare falls disproportionately on women. But this is the same across ages groups, grandparents are not being singled out for it. And as with the last thread, I find it disingenuous that the sexism point is being made now, by women who took on the bulk of childcare. Of course I see the point that you feel you've done your share, that is perfectly valid and you can say no, no one will force you. But when you've spent their childhood modelling that childcare is women's work, surely it's hardly a surprise you're approached now rather than the granddad.

Maybe these men aren’t complaining because they just think the childcare fairy sorts it all out, not because they are any less entitled than the women who have these unreasonable expectations of their parents/in-laws.

Well I guess it stands to reason that if a GP does childcare they see the child more often. I do regular childcare and see my GC most days. I also live very close. Their other GPs don't see them as often and have never babysat or done childcare. However their parents have always made a big effort to ensure the children see them as much as possible because they feel its important to the DC to have relationships with them.
Theres all sorts of ways to be a GP, and while providing childcare makes you a more useful one to their parents, it doesn't make your relationship with your GC any more valid or important than GPs who don't.

I have the opposite problem in my family. My parents farmed me out to relatives ages 2-7 and now expect me to hand over my toddler because they didn't get to experience it. Yeah, jog on.

Basically people are people, and can be very unreasonable. And because having a baby is such a hard, hard, and transformative time in life, it brings out all kinds of issues.

I'm not a grandma!

The question was about women, not men.

Realistically it probably is a more important relationship to a young child though.
My in laws kindly have DD2 two days a week, often with an overnight stay between the two days. That regular, consistent, day to day contact has built a really lovely close relationship. It’s the same for my eldest who my in laws looked after for 1 day a week before she started school.
My parents live further away and probably see my DC every 6 weeks-ish. My DC love seeing them, they have a great time. But it’s just not the same relationship. It’s a totally different dynamic, and to a 3 yr old, the people she sees every week are the more important relationship.

That doesn’t mean I think grandparents should be pressured or guilted or blackmailed (“you won’t see your grandchildren if you don’t do it”) into doing childcare. I do think that grandparents should be realistic about the relationships, particularly if they don’t do childcare and the other grandparents do. This is the issue I have with my mother - her frequently expressed annoyance that she doesn’t have the same relationship with DC that my in-laws do.

How young do people round you have kids? Is everyone teen parents?!
You mentioned a 40 year old being a grandparent on an earlier post and now you think boomers are too old to be grandparents?
I'm presuming the majority of people needing childcare help are late 30 to 50. Their parents could be 55 to 80?
So boomers sit nicely in the middle of this