to think some women feel entitled to free childcare from their DM/MILs just because they had help themselves?

[timetoban]

I’ve noticed this more and more lately on MN. Some women seem to assume that because their own mum/MIL head help with childcare that they’re now automatically owed the same from their DM or MIL. Why?

Just because one generation chose (or was able) to help doesn’t mean the next one is obliged to step in. Circumstances are completely different now. A lot of grandmothers are still working, have their own lives, health issues or don’t want to be tied into regular childcare. That should be allowed without guilt, expectations or criticism.

What bothers me is the expectation. I've seen people get annoyed or even fall out with their DM/MIL for not doing regular pick-ups and committing to regular childcare.

There is also a double standard. The pressure seems to fall much more on grandmothers than grandfathers. Even if a grandfather is retired and not working, the expectation is not there or much less for him.

Of course, if grandparents want to help and everyone’s happy with the arrangement, that’s great. I am not talking about those situations.

Also I know it is not ALL women.

My FiL is the one I feel sorry for. He told me once that he wanted to have more children but his wife was so sick after having my husband that she couldn't face it. He made some noise about moving closer to us so they coild see any future grandchildren but she wouldn't have it.

You keep saying this without acknowledging then men over 50, so the grandfathers are more likely to work, more likely to work full time and more likely to be the breadwinner in that household. Women over 50 pick up more childcare than men over 50 because they have more capacity to do it.

I think it’s really normal to have family ways of doing things so if you spend lots of time with your gps you would think it’s normal.

You’re projecting! You clearly expect your children to do so all the organising and planning so you can see your GC because you can’t be bothered! Nothing to do with childcare, everything to do with lazy grandparents that cant be bothered making any effort and then blame their children for the fact they have no bond with their grandchildren.

I never had any help from my parents at all. That made me want to make sure dd got help. But I let her take the piss for to long i have stepped back now because or was to much. Now she tells everyone i do fuck all to help and I took the only thing away that she had. She doesn't know I know that though I can't be arsed to bring it up.

I was looked after a lot by my grandparents as a child, and my husband was looked after a lot by his. We did not expect regular childcare from our parents as mine still work and his don’t live that close. But we were surprised when we had children and nobody offered to babysit at all, even for an hour or so, but everyone expected us to visit regularly so they could hold our baby and take pictures. It was a bit annoying but we accepted that this was the level of involvement our parents wanted. The only time I’ve ever gotten “annoyed” about it was when my mum berated me for asking for help in an emergency and implied that she had no help when her children were young, which I know is simply not true.

If you have capacity to easily help out your kids and you dont, when your parents did it for you, then you are obviously more selfish towards your children than your parents were to you. You're free to be selfish, of course, and your children are free to think of you as selfish. If you're still working full time to make ends meet while your parents were retired then obviously that's just different circumstances rather than selfishness. If you're golfing or lunching or whatever 5 days a week.....selfish. The woman/man thing perhaps comes from fewer women in their 50s working full time than men, otherwise I cant really see the difference.

Nobody helped my mother with childcare, my mother was always happy to help with her DGC.
Mainly the first batch as she got older, less able.

I see plenty of grandparents helping because they can, not because they’re forced too.

My eldest niece is due her first baby and we will all be available to help her, she helped me and my sisters many times.
Some families are happier than others to help.

I get what you are saying regarding gender roles, but it won't change in a day. Historically, childcare was seen as a "woman's business" and women helped each other because they couldn't rely on the men in their lives. It was a generational social contact: if grandma helped mom, mom feels a subconscious (or conscious) obligation to help her daughter. When that chain breaks, the daughter may feel "cheated" out of something she saw everyone else in the family (especially her own mother) receive. It's made worse because we are living in a period where the need for free childcare is at an all-time high because of the rising COL.

Grandfathers are still often viewed as "helpers". If they show up to a football game, they’re doing great. Grandmothers are still culturally viewed as "caregivers." Society (and family) often defaults to the woman when a child needs something.

Do you think this expectation is fueled more by the media's portrayal of "perfect families," or is it strictly a result of the practical, financial pressures parents are facing today? Your responses to other posters seem like you are angry about the situation, and unwilling to accept that societal norms are slow to change. Is someone trying to guilt you into looking after your grandchildren?

This generation of fathers is different - let's hope that they will also make better grandfathers.

My MIL is far more involved in my DS’s life. Willingly provides childcare (her idea) and pops round all the time.

My own DM didn’t want to provide childcare and rarely sees us because she “has her own life don’t you know”. This is upsetting in itself but what really annoys me is when she begrudges my DS being close to my MIL or is annoyed by my DS being completely unbothered by her presence when she eventually does decide to see us. You can’t have it both ways!

I have known women who have returned to work after retirement because there was an expectation from their daughters that they would pick up full time child care. No asking, just the expectation.

One woman was expected to pick up full time care for 5 grandchildren pretty much the week after she retired. She had plans for her retirement - travelling, trying new activities, not being at the beck and call of others. She'd worked full time from when her DDs were very small and understandably thought she'd earned her retirement. She came along to 2-3 of my classes and then told me she was returning to work because of the pressure she was under from her DDs. Their expectation really soured their relationships.

I'm sure the vast majority of grandparents want to help their adult children with childcare to some extent but there certainly seems to be a lot of entitlement on the part of their adult children.

I don’t know anyone who expects or has 5 day a week around the clock childcare from gps. I do know lots who have 1 day/a pick up from school/sleepovers etc.

Actually I do know one who expects & puts a lot on her parents but she is entitled & always has been. Her parents never said no to her & still don’t 🤷🏻‍♀️

This thread is weird. You start a thread where the primary point was about not expecting help from parents even if those parents were helped by their parents. With a secondary point about the imbalance of expectations between GFs and GMs. When anyone tries to engage you on the first point you just respond with your second point. If the GF/GM thing is what you wanted to discuss why not just start a thread on that and leave out the points about previous generation help that you seem not to want to discuss?

And if you’re that fussed about the imbalances of the expectation of childcare between men and women why did you write your post saying that women seem to assume that if their mothers had help with childcare then those mothers/MILs should help them. Surely based on your position you should have wrote why do parents expect help with childcare if their parents had help. Seems like you are just repositioning childcare as the concern of mothers all over again?

How am I projecting?

You know nothing about my life 😂

Surely based on your position you should have wrote why do parents expect help with childcare if their parents had help.

Are you new to MN? Have you not seen the posts where women are upset with their mothers/MIL because they had help with childcare and now they will not help? Where are the posts where the women are posting their grandfathers got help and now they won't help?

Same. Some women are also delaying their retirement so they don't get roped into childcare.

These expectations rarely exist for men.

As usual focus is on the women not the men.

I don’t think there’s the double standards it most definitely should and does fall to grandfather’s as much as grandmothers however
I suppose you could say I was lucky that my parents were so diabolical. I wouldn’t trust them with the dog. Never mind the kids so they’ve been released from their obligation despite the fact that my siblings and I spent most of our weekends with our grandparents.
So there you go if you don’t want any expectations that’s the way to handle it
Be crap in the first place and nobody will ever ask you.

Maybe her dad isn’t the one complaining about the relationship! Which is a separate issue, but not that poster’s fault

Rather like the weaponised incompetence trick that some men pull!

Very few and anecdotal, not backed up by the statistics you keep ignoring

These expectations rarely exist for men

Again doesn’t it depend on the family dynamics?

My dad was pretty hands on even though my mum didn’t work. DHs dad was the sahp. Both gfs were very involved in looking after our dc.

That’s not aspirational

This is similar to my situation.

It's the acknowledgement that is frustrating more than anything.

My DH mum became a stay at home mum when she had him (and stayed off work since then) and they comment that they never had childcare help. His dad had a 6 figure salary so we're very comfortable. (And have retired Early)

My parents worked shifts and progressed well through their careers, full flexible hours at work but we still had weekly sleep overs at grandparents and daily school pick up and drop offs. Again no paid childcare used.

Us on the other hand, work full days 8am-6pm mon to fri and have to pick our jobs based on childcare hours, we've paid a full time childminder since my daughter was 18m (she's 6 now) otherwise we couldn't work at all.

My parents now, one doesn't work at all and the other works full time (fine) but they're now they've put the house up for sale, talking about retiring officially and moving 2 hours away "because they never see anyone anyway"