To think it's unfair to sell your home to fund care when older while others pay nothing.

[SonnyHoney]

I provide healthcare services to older people, which means I regularly visit care homes. It’s something I find quite upsetting at times. I see individuals who have worked hard all their lives, paid off their mortgages, and are now facing care home fees of around £2,000 a week.

Meanwhile, others are living in the same care homes with their costs largely covered, aside from a contribution from their pension.

I say this as someone from a working-class background and daughter of an immigrant (El salvador) who has had to work incredibly hard to get to where I am financially. I’m also very aware that one day my own parents may have to sell their home to fund their care.
My mum, for example, has run a cleaning business for years, she’s up early every morning and has worked long, physically demanding hours. She hopes to pass something on, but realistically, I feel it will likely be used to cover care costs .

Before anyone says “Why don’t you just care for her yourself and keep the house?” And of course, if I’m in a position to do that, I will. But the reality is that with older age, there can come a point where needs become too complex, and care at home is no longer possible.

Obviously, those who don't have houses to sell need care and have to go to a care home, but my point is it just feels unfair, really.

If they are in a care home then they don't need their houses any more. The money has to come from somewhere and the government can't afford to pay for everyone. I'd agree with some kind of capped scheme where people have to pay the first 100k from their houses but overall there is massive housing inequality in this country and I'm not averse to my parents considerable housing wealth going to fund their care fees if required and they agree with me. I don't need or particularly deserve the money.

Of course it feels unfair. Some people pay their way through life, some don’t.

The same system that funds those people who don't have property to sell

So what happens to the people who need care but don't have any assets – the return of poor houses? Splendid idea 🙄

I don’t know where you are working, but when an elderly relative of mine went into a home the council would fund about £700 a week max for a care home and she had significant needs. Whilst adequate, the difference between that home and a £1300 self funded place was night and day and I know which one I’d rather end up in….

Rather cruises and holidays than scrimping. YOLO

I’m 45 my husband is 46 and we have a 21 year old son.

We do not save. We keep about £10,000 in the bank total, across both our accounts. The rest, we spend. We take a £10,000-£15,000 holiday every year in the summer; leaving the UK for 5 weeks at a time. We also go on a £3000 holiday during February. We enjoy the planning, lead-up and holiday itself. We enjoy our lives immensely.

In about 20 years we will sell our home and blow the money. Buy lots for our son. I quite fancy living on a cruise ship for a few years like that lady in the newspaper did, but by the time I’m 80, I want my money gone. I will look back on a lifetime of memories.

This ridiculously unfair system will not trap me into spending my life working and saving to provide for my son, only to take it off me when I reach old age. I am not saving for retirement the way this system is set up. My husband and I will have whatever we sell the house for and £300,000 worth of pension lump sum, which we get at 58, but I will die poor and I don’t give a shit.

The problem of perverse incentives. I dont know what the solution is!

Easy answer - look after your parents yourself. As was the normal way of life a few generations ago (and still is, in many societies). You inherited their assets in return.

No it wouldn't count, unless you don’t have a legitimate reason for signing over the house, and were healthy when you did. When people get caught out is when they leave it too late to sign over assets or set up trusts.

Yes it is unfair. I’m pretty sure in Scotland it is all free or highly subsidised no matter your income. But one of the differences between paying and non paying people in England as far as I can remember is that you can choose your care home if you are paying rather than just having to go with what is available to you. When I was viewing care homes there were a few that were really not very nice (but still expensive fees so the nice ones were eye wateringly expensive). I understand why people put their homes in their children’s names. It would only take a year or two to spend the equivalent of a family home around here

How quick people want systems that enforce and drive generational wealth growthand increased real unfairness in society, once it is conveniently something that would allow them to benefit.

If you pay for care, it is better than the free places, some of which are dreadful. There is no point in sitting on your biggest asset if it can be used to make life more comfortable.

However let us not be pessimistic. Not everyone needs to go into care and it is possible to have carers come to your home, and to have emergency buzzers istalled, if you need them. Lots of elderly people die in their own homes so don't worry in advance. I intend to barricade myself in if necessary. Wish me luck.

We’re better off downsizing, gifting money before we’re too old (under the tax threshold) and going on lavish holidays. It’s hugely unfair but in this world there are the radiators and drains - some who give and some who take. Such is life.

Well those people have had the benefit of a secure home for most of their adult lives presumably. Those who don't own have to live in constant fear of being evicted or their rent being increased massively as they have done recently, including the elderly if they are at the mercy of private landlords.
It's a privilege to be sitting on a paid for property than you can then use to afford decent care should you need it.
It's not something I'm personally worried about, all my female relatives have died suddenly, I'm hoping for the same (not too soon though 🙏 😂)

Life is very nuanced, and the home owner = good hard-working person, no assets = bad, lazy person is such a troubling view.

If you are living in new accommodation you should pay for it if you can. Even if you saved and saved money you can't dictate with absolute guarantee how it is used in the end. If you have a giant, empty house that you can no longer use who does that benefit, aside from direct heirs (who also didn't work for it)?

Where would you like all the people who need care but can't afford it to go?

I recognise that I am in a relatively "privileged" position to be able to do so (I am disabled and had to take medical retirement at a young age, would much rather be able bodied and working) but I have my 86 year old father with dementia living with us for this reason.

Also I used to visit old people in care homes as a HCP and I wish I could say they were well cared for but often they were badly neglected, underfed, no water, hot stuffy rooms, bruised from preventable falls, no mental stimulation and left soaking in urine and faeces.

The only alternative is that care home costs are funded by our taxes which means that some of us pay more tax so that others can inherit their parents property.

how is that fairer?

I think when legal assisted suicide comes in this won’t be such a huge problem.

Id rather die than live like a toddler or prisoner regardless of if I have £100 or £100,000 in the bank. Until care homes are more like a cross between a private hospital / holiday they are not worth 2k a week today or what will be 4/5/6k by the time I’m 70.

I think people want to see hard work paying off - it’s a line we’ve always been sold but doesn’t always seem true.

The problem with the system as it stands at the moment is that it disincentivises hard work because some people pay (those have managed to make savings) and some people don’t (those who have no savings). If you follow this logic to the end, why bother to work at all as the state will fund if you can’t or won’t fund yourself?

You can't take it with you.

In most cases I am on th side of people shouldn't get less / be screwed over for being responsible and working hard. However if you are last in the house (ie no wife or husband) then what you gonna need it for.

The only possible reason woukd be to pass it on to children. This ends up with the inequality we see today. One person working their ass off, the other get things handed to them on a plate (which is ironically what you proclaiming to be agaiinst)

The sheer cost of care homes doesn’t stack up. They just don’t.
Have been round a few. The best was a Council one in a very working class area but the staff were ace.
The worst in a leafy very posh old building where they could not really get the staff.
Also near the bottom of my league table was the one like a sort of prison. Where all manner of things stated as provided but really all patients put into one room to watch an overloud TV. Prices were high for this place. I suspect the profits were very healthy too.
Extreme profiteering from private care homes needs someone with a backbone to look at and put a lid on.

The other issue is nursing v social care. What a diabolical nonsense that is.

If a person can afford a more expensive care home then that’s great but when the money runs dry they will be moved to the cheapest option.