To think it's unfair to sell your home to fund care when older while others pay nothing.

[SonnyHoney]

I provide healthcare services to older people, which means I regularly visit care homes. It’s something I find quite upsetting at times. I see individuals who have worked hard all their lives, paid off their mortgages, and are now facing care home fees of around £2,000 a week.

Meanwhile, others are living in the same care homes with their costs largely covered, aside from a contribution from their pension.

I say this as someone from a working-class background and daughter of an immigrant (El salvador) who has had to work incredibly hard to get to where I am financially. I’m also very aware that one day my own parents may have to sell their home to fund their care.
My mum, for example, has run a cleaning business for years, she’s up early every morning and has worked long, physically demanding hours. She hopes to pass something on, but realistically, I feel it will likely be used to cover care costs .

Before anyone says “Why don’t you just care for her yourself and keep the house?” And of course, if I’m in a position to do that, I will. But the reality is that with older age, there can come a point where needs become too complex, and care at home is no longer possible.

Obviously, those who don't have houses to sell need care and have to go to a care home, but my point is it just feels unfair, really.

Send 'em to the Workhouse!

Then people should take steps to make sure not everything is taken.
It is possible to do this but it needs forward planning.

It's the same with inheritance tax, it can be avoided if people plan for that. You often notice that when very wealthy celebs die and the Daily Mail reports on their final estate that it seems quite low given their fame & success - it's because they & their accountant planned for it and their wealth was protected with the various legal loopholes available.

Personally I think assets should be used to fund care but if people really don't want this to happen they need to plan and act to avoid it.

A pp upthread mentioned insurance schemes to pay for care but I think it would be unworkable because of the amount it would cost. Insurance pay outs that we have for other things tend to be one off sums. It’s quite possible that someone could go into a care home at 75 - 80 and live there for 20 plus years. That would be a huge sum that that would add up to.

More and more people are going to be living for longer but not necessarily fitter and will need care homes or visiting carers and more and more health care. And yet fewer and fewer people will be in a position to self fund with the cost of living and housing costs etc.

True. That was an eye-opener.
FIL is now council funded. He didn't need to move homes.

Yes the veggie or the meat that’s the options.

She’s been told they are not even allowed to pour drinks for the residents anymore in a change as they need to be more independent or in her eyes cost cutting so staff spend less time with people.

she’s seen appointments verbally about personal issues handled in the general living room. People having their feet treatments in again the general room.

Residents have to be in that room between certain hours, they cannot just be in their rooms if they wish they must be wheeled out regardless of their wishes.

Sounds worse than prison to me but you pay for that while prisoners get it free.

A CEO won't be selling their house to fund care. They'll have sufficient savings put away for that.

It's the ones who have little other than property to their name that have to sell their homes.

It's all a farce anyway, with arbitrary rules. Even the distinction between health and social care is a false distinction. Eg a person with dementia needs assistance with washing, dressing and toileting because of their illness. Being unable to wash, dress and toilet oneself is a symptom of the disease. But, categorise that assistance as social care rather than health care and well that's just something you have to buy for yourself, as long as you've amassed more than £22.5k of assets during your working life. Which is handy, given how many people have dementia.

It's bizarre how many have popped up in the last few days, isn't it?

It’s also a massive luxury to be able to leave anything for your children at all. Children should not (necessarily) expect to be left any money.

It's an absolute lottery. My dmum has dementia and is burning through her assets at the rate of £1500 per week. Her modest home was sold and that is that. My dad died 20 years ago. Had he still been alive, the house would not have been touched.
That's the bit that is unfair, but I suspect that at some future point, spouses will be allowed to carry on living in their homes but a charge will be put on it.
Either way, the one comfort I have is that the care home is the best the money can buy.

And yet, it works in other countries. The countries that took action half a century ago, when we also should have done. Most residents, to be blunt, aren't in homes for very long.

the annual amount of self funding for care homes is about £13bn. If you want the government to cover that how would you raise the money in the fairest way? 1.2% on income tax? 1.3% on VAT? They’d get around £13bn each. Not sure many working age adults would want to cover wealthy older people getting care for free so they can pass the money on to their families.

I do think an insurance based system might make sense and make it fairer. At the moment it’s luck or genetics whether you end up in a care home and have nothing to pass on.
about 10% of over 80’s are likely to go into a care home at some point but for those people it’s very expensive and can wipe out savings.

Although, as I saw on another thread, owners of private care homes can make a vast amount of money apparently. Maybe that should be looked into? Our care home costs are apparently very high compared to other nations.

A very small proportion of old people go into a care home. So there is every chance you will leave your house to your children.
Also l worked in what was supposed fabulous care home, l would never let my family go into a care home, its really not a caring place, its all about the money.

So who do you think should pay? Should someone with a house worth millions that they no longer live in still rely on the taxpayer to pay for their care? Should those people without children to “pass their home to” pay and those with children not pay? It’s your care, of course you should pay for it.

Cross posted with @Hodofls

I think for the cost lack of actual care and choice is a huge problem.

2k a week and your treated like a toddler.

Your friend needs to raise a complaint via safeguarding and to the regulators.

I have observed Food in care homes is very poor for money paid. It's very carb heavy, and residents are given cake and biscuits throughout the day.

So not even good value for the 2k a week.

Seven years only applies to inheritance tax, not to care fees. If they consider it's deprivation of assets then they can go back as far as they want. Selling and giving a deposit to relative isn't deprivation of assets as it's legitimate. Putting your house in someone else's name would count even if you did it 20 years ago.

I know she complained to her boss and will still do extras when she can. They even had residents using walkers being told they had to make them carry their own trays.

I totally agree it isn’t fair but the country is on its knees financially and put bluntly can’t afford to pay for those who have assets they can liquidise to pay for themselves

The difference is if you bought another home you'd still have something to leave your family. You sell your home to go into care and the state asset strips you down to around 23k.

Inherited wealth is about to become a major issue for the younger generation- with massive student debt and crippling house prices, the difference between those who inherit property wealth and those who don’t will be stark.

no need to make that worse by allowing people to give their children their wealth while the tax payer picks up the tab.

One of several reasons I plan to off myself before getting to this point.

A relative of mine is in a private care home and I still couldn’t dream of living there.

This. My mum self funds her care in a nursing home. The council is paying less per person it places in the nursing home than my mum pays. So when costs go up my mum’s fees go up by a lot more than the council’s fees do.

My mum’s pension has just gone up by 3.8% for the next tax year. But her care home fees went up by 9%. She pays £1,700 a week and the council cost for the same care home is about £1,100. So my mum pays about £300 a week more than if it was the same fee for everyone.