To think it's unfair to sell your home to fund care when older while others pay nothing.

[SonnyHoney]

I provide healthcare services to older people, which means I regularly visit care homes. It’s something I find quite upsetting at times. I see individuals who have worked hard all their lives, paid off their mortgages, and are now facing care home fees of around £2,000 a week.

Meanwhile, others are living in the same care homes with their costs largely covered, aside from a contribution from their pension.

I say this as someone from a working-class background and daughter of an immigrant (El salvador) who has had to work incredibly hard to get to where I am financially. I’m also very aware that one day my own parents may have to sell their home to fund their care.
My mum, for example, has run a cleaning business for years, she’s up early every morning and has worked long, physically demanding hours. She hopes to pass something on, but realistically, I feel it will likely be used to cover care costs .

Before anyone says “Why don’t you just care for her yourself and keep the house?” And of course, if I’m in a position to do that, I will. But the reality is that with older age, there can come a point where needs become too complex, and care at home is no longer possible.

Obviously, those who don't have houses to sell need care and have to go to a care home, but my point is it just feels unfair, really.

It depends tbh. Some home's will negotiate a lower fee with the council, most will look for third party top up ie ask family to contribute under threat of the person having to leave and a few will evict the person if money can't be found (yes it does happen)

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/top-up-fees/

I don't know but what I can tell you is my Aunt was moved from a Care Home to a Nursing Home after a year in the Care Home as they couldn't meet her needs.

I can't tell you what was the line.
She'd ended up in the Care Home after nasty fall down stairs, and various incidents with police.

The end of her life was definitely nursing care, needed turned to avoid bedsores, as her body was so weak, she forgot how to eat, chew and swallow somewhere along the line.
Dementia is a horrific illness, lots of people die of other things before they get to the final stages, the when the brain forgets the most basic of stuff.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to justify expecting younger generations to continue bearing the financial burden of supporting wealthier pensioners through taxation. Many young people today are already facing significant economic challenges, not least the inability to get onto the property ladder, despite working hard and paying substantial taxes.
By contrast, many from my parents’ generation, now in their late seventies, have benefited enormously from the dramatic rise in property values over the past 50 to 60 years. As a result, a large number have accumulated considerable housing wealth. In those circumstances, it seems only reasonable that those who have the means should contribute towards the cost of their own care in later life, rather than relying entirely on younger taxpayers who may be far less financially secure.
The one aspect of the current system that I strongly disagree with is the practice in many care homes of charging private residents significantly more than those whose places are funded by the local authority, despite both receiving the same standard of care. This effectively means that self-funding residents are not only covering their own costs, but are also subsidising the care of those who are unable to pay. Such an arrangement lacks transparency and raises serious questions about fairness.

Agree with the last paragraph

My grandad left school at 14, straight down the pit. Worked as a miner till he went to war in1940. After the war he got a factory job. Ended up as a foreman. Gran worked in munitions during the war then was a 1950s housewife bringing up the children in their 2 bed council house.Then she worked in various low paid jobs. They lived a modest life & saved what they could. Never claimed a penny in benefits except the universal family allowance & their state pension. All 3 daughters ended up in good professional jobs.
Both died in their 90s without care being required but if they had had to go in a home they had no house to sell.
Most council funded residents will have similar backgrounds. Don’t know where this idea has come from that they all had good incomes but choose to live the high life! Peole born in the first half of the 20th century lived very modest lives on the whole.

So how come in Europe care homes cost the same for a month as we pay for a week?

Many could rent out their home and pay care costs if they weren’t so extortionate.

I think house prices need to be brought back under control.
But that doesn't mean people with a modest house should loose all their savings to pay for care.

It doesn't matter to people with wads of cash who'll pass plenty on without it mattering. Its people with all their money tied up in a modest 2/3 bed house.

Maybe I wouldn't feel so bad if the max savings increased to £250k or something the £16k figure hasn't risen in the last 30 years.

Overcrowded small island.

She didn't forget. Her body was shutting down as she was nearing death.

My parents in law both went into a care home. At the time it was the right decision as they weren't getting the care they both needed at home. Their house was sold to cover care costs and the whole value went. That was the families generational wealth gone. It would have paid off our mortgage - in turn we would in the future be leaving money to pay off our children's mortgage, and so on. The security being passed down though generations - gone. We work hard - couldn't afford for one of us to work part-time can care for them. No money to be able to get a bigger house so they could live-in. No money to be able to afford the financial advice necessary to beat the system. It is a disgusting poverty trap.

Fortunately all our relatives died quite suddenly without needing any care

My dad has said he doesn’t want their house used for care home fees but I’ve told him that if it comes to it, his comfort and safety are more important than any inheritance. I don’t see the difference between someone having money in the bank or owning a property. Would you expect someone with £500k in savings to pay? How is owning a property worth that amount not the same?

Surely the biggest problem is the cost of care in the first place! Thousands of pounds per week sometimes, and we know it’s not going on wages. I firmly believe that there should be no profit to be made in social care. It’s obscene and costs us all in the long run via taxation. Local social care budgets are under crazy amounts of pressure yet venture capital companies buy up care homes, make a fortune from the tax payer and pay it straight to shareholders. It’s the same for children’s homes. It’s so offensive

It’s kind of unfair for those that do spend all of their capital though isn’t it? Seeing as from what you say it actually isn’t that many people why do it? Sure have them contribute but it should perhaps be capped as it touches the working to middle class yet again. The wealthy have ways around it and good advice .

Absolutely this. It should never ever have been given to the private sector . It shouldn’t be possible to make profit on care.

It does if the rent plus pension plus savings isn’t enough to cover fees .

It’s not really insurance if it pays out when you don’t make a claim! No one expects to get back what they pay for car insurance, the expectation is that for most people the money is lost. But in the event that you do have a big cost it doesn’t bankrupt you. The only reason it can pay big for those who are unlucky is because it gives nothing back to those who didn’t need it. If no one misses out on money paid in then it’s not insurance it’s just savings, isn’t it?

The council places a charging order on the house, just as a mortgage is arranged, they then pay the care home fees and collect on sale of the house after death.

People with dementia can forget how to chew and swallow.

I think @Needspaceforlego knows more about what happened to her aunt!

Agree. When the body is shutting down near the end of life, it does not NEED food and water.
People with dementia who forget to eat and drink lose weight and can become malnourished and dehydrated. There is a big difference.

This exactly

I've posted this earlier, but the same point keeps being made - why should someone with assets (savings/ house) get free care, they should pay themselves so tax payers don't have to.

But we don't apply this to any other area! Rich people can still use the NHS, still have state school education for their kids, still rely on the police etc. Why should care for dementia (an illness) be any different?

Fine to expect a contribution/ 1-2£k cap, but the assumption that those with money must pay (and subsidise others) is grossly unfair.

Of course it is but the terminally jealous will sanctimoniously pretend not to see it.

I agree that this is unfair. All of my grandmothers money was used for her care and towards the council funded residents. Then when her money ran out the council said she was in a home that was too expensive and wanted to move her. If she hadn’t been funding others she wouldn’t have run out of money so quickly.

But the number of people alive in their mid-80s to late 90s is much lower, so that doesn't compute.