To think it's unfair to sell your home to fund care when older while others pay nothing.

[SonnyHoney]

I provide healthcare services to older people, which means I regularly visit care homes. It’s something I find quite upsetting at times. I see individuals who have worked hard all their lives, paid off their mortgages, and are now facing care home fees of around £2,000 a week.

Meanwhile, others are living in the same care homes with their costs largely covered, aside from a contribution from their pension.

I say this as someone from a working-class background and daughter of an immigrant (El salvador) who has had to work incredibly hard to get to where I am financially. I’m also very aware that one day my own parents may have to sell their home to fund their care.
My mum, for example, has run a cleaning business for years, she’s up early every morning and has worked long, physically demanding hours. She hopes to pass something on, but realistically, I feel it will likely be used to cover care costs .

Before anyone says “Why don’t you just care for her yourself and keep the house?” And of course, if I’m in a position to do that, I will. But the reality is that with older age, there can come a point where needs become too complex, and care at home is no longer possible.

Obviously, those who don't have houses to sell need care and have to go to a care home, but my point is it just feels unfair, really.

This is one of the most disgusting things I have read on this site. I am not sure whether you seriously mean this or not, but you should be ashamed of yourself.

My parents are not lazy/feckless/unsuccessful. They have worked all their lives. They own their own home and have savings. But that home is in the North of England. It would buy them about a year of care. Their savings will buy them maybe another two years. Some people live with severe care needs for ten years or more. Are you really happy to consider a society that just ends their care because they've had the temerity to live too long for their assets?

Whilst the person in the next bed who has worked and saved like them but just so happens to have a property that is now worth over a million because it's in a London suburb, is more 'deserving'? Or the feckless wild child who did bugger all because he knew he'd inherit the family fortune, is he more 'deserving'?

I just don't get this attitude. I really don't. The majority of the working population isn't going to have enough for long term care. This situation could happen to any one of us. Not because we are feckless or lazy, but because we are ordinary people who have led ordinary, hardworking lives, who happen to have lost our health at a younger age. Damned if I am writing the majority off as lazy/feckless/unsuccessful.

All I can say is, I'm there to look after my parents so they don't have to be a burden to the likes of you. Of course, I will likely have to cut short my own success to do it, impacting my own savings, and through no fault of my own, I haven't got kids. So I guess I'll be in the gutter if my money runs out, too. And someone like you can call me lazy and feckless because, whilst I own my own home and have savings, like the vast majority of the population, it's not fucking millions. It's a few hundred thousand. It will buy me about 5 years.

Grandchildren.

That ship is probably sailed for you for now.
I too became a single parent of four during the pandemic and I still managed to buy a house so your decisions that you made prior to that did not put you into the best position
That is, I’m afraid on you.

You’re either old enough to have had the opportunity to have done this before you had 4 children, which most adults could not afford to support by the way and you’ve screwed it up
Or you’re young enough that when the children are less demanding you’ll be able to accelerate your career and still be able to take out of 20 year Mortgage.
Either way, it doesn’t sound as though you’ve got to worry about your care for now, you’ve got time.

Food is a necessity too, would you like that for free? Same with most household bills. If you are in a care home you need a service and accommodation, and you should pay for it.

And the way house prices are going they'll need it.

I bought my first flat in 94 for 46k on an average salary of 16K,so just shy of three times my salary. That flat last sold three years ago for £490k. The average salary now is about £38k.

@PartQualifiedAcca can you not see how difficult it is now for people to buy their own home? The housing market is a totally different beast to the 90s.

Who didn't do a thing to earn the money?

Truly sorry for your experience, I hope this was reported to CQC & the local authorities care quality team. I know there is poor care out there & the more reporting on this the better but there is also excellent care & I wouldn't want anyone to think care home automatically means abuse as this is just not true. Sadly you are right care homes are a profit making business, this is the society we live in, I would love all care homes to be non profit settings & for carers to be paid well & for there to be plenty of carers to offer 1:1 time. I remember as a Student Social Worker visiting a care home with my manager & it was an old building & a bit run down (decoratively) & she said 'remember carpets & curtains don't look after people' & that really stuck with me. Don't be taken in by the beautiful setting everyone, look at staff retention, staff ratios, the food menu, activity staff/planners, do they do exercises, outings, have they had any recent Safeguarding refferals to the local council or CQC if so what? A good care home will be self referring concerns e.g medication errors (they do happen) or bruising. I could go on all day! I'm so sorry that people have poor treatment & good quality care should be the absolute minimum for everyone. Best wishes

My point about what we did in the 90s was that we had two jobs
My boyfriend and I had day jobs and then we worked in bars to cover the house savings for the deposit.
By 98 house prices were doubling when I entered the market.
If people have had children before securing their accommodation, of course their lives are gonna be more difficult
But my child could buy the first property that I purchased - saw one come up in the same road - on their own.
My other child will be buying a house with her boyfriend that it took us 10 years to save for and she’ll be buying it two years out of uni
It’s not more difficult unless you’ve got four albatrosses around your neck but then you access support that my children wouldn’t receive. So swings and roundabouts.

I don’t disagree that your MIL is the very definition of neglectful parent but should she just be left to rot? How do we decide who is deserving of having their basic needs met & who isn’t? My DH hasn’t worked for almost 20 years due to ill health & disability. He hasn’t paid much tax & has no home to sell. Should he qualify for free care?
Your DPs sound lovely but surely as young working parents they were providing a lovely caring home for their family to live in at that time? And sounds like they succeeded in that! People look at it all wrong IMO. You work hard to have a life now, the future may never come. I made sure my dc had a good childhood, safe home, holidays all their needs met. That is what parents work for.

Moving into a carehome is no different to moving into a different house or flat so if you own a property you should sell up and pay, food and nursing care should be funded for everyone but not accommodation. Self funding and social funding homes should be separated but carehomes are only interested in making money.they don't card where the money comes from. More money needs to be allocated to hospice care.

Free NHS care applies at all stages of life. You might be 40 and getting life-saving treatment, after which you will hopefully live for years. We don't want people bankrupted by healthcare as can happen in the US.

Going into care, and selling your house if necessary to fund it, happens at a point in life when you are not expected to recover. You wouldn't go into care, sell the house, and then at the age of 95 or whatever leave the care home and live independently, so you don't need to keep money aside, or keep the house, for that independent life.

Some aspects are unfair, yes, But if we're talking about inheritances, the whole concept of inheritance is unfair. Someone who has done nothing to merit the money and whose parents die suddenly may get a large inheritance. Someone else, whose parent has to spend it all on care, gets nothing. Someone else, whose parents were poor all their lives, also gets nothing. In all cases, except perhaps in the case of someone who cares for a relative and gives up their own life and income to do so, inheritance is unearned and unmerited.

Two jobs is not going to make it possible for someone on an average wage to buy the flat I bought.

Is your child an average earner?

Eta: what a disgusting way to describe someone else's children. On a site for parents. What the hell is wrong with you?

Yes you're right I phrased it wrong. The NHS also contributes if the person has more complex care needs or needs nursing home rather than a care home so it depends on circumstances.

Where did you live while you were saving the deposit? Presumably not somewhere you were shelling out more than a cost of a mortgage.

people working full time shouldn’t need two full time jobs to afford to exist.

my children aren’t albatrosses you vile human. Would you suggest post birth abortions for them when my husband had his affair?

That does make sense. If you can prove that you’ve reproduced and have living descendants, then the taxpayer should pay for your care. If you haven’t reproduced or your offspring are dead, then you pay for yourself.

Agree with this! Many care homes are part of large companies who must be raking it in! The government have allowed fees to grow astronomically! And many homes provide substandard care at a premium rate. It needs investigating but no doubt those in power have a vested interest in the current system.

Hmm, I’m not sure I understand the point you are making.

nobody is arguing that people should sit on their arse and be given a house.

the vast majority of people renting are hard working people on low paid jobs. What I really object to is the demonization of people on in work benefits. The scroungers in that scenario are the companies not paying adequate wages.

I appreciate the right wing media demonise the low paid, and there definitely are some looking to abuse the system but the scale of the problem is tiny compared to tax evasion of the super rich.

I can't tell if you are serious or not!

You’re not sure what point I’m making and yet you’ve commented on the point. Hmmm
Nobody is demonising the low paid.
But the point is, if anybody is over the age of 50 and they’re trying to claim that they haven’t had the opportunity to acquire assets they’re talking out of their hat
Never been easy, but it’s possible

You don’t think severely disabled people or their carers might not have had the opportunity to acquire assets?

I thought that the situation was that the first 80 grand will go to care costs, and the government pays the rest. This is the wrong way round, as rich people will still have money left over to pass to their children, but poorer people who worked hard to buy a flat or small house for just over 100k won't have much to give at all. They will be the ones whose children need it most. I don't have a comment to make on people who don't own homes because they probably deal with enough unfair shit throughout their lives. Bottom line is it should all be free.

I guess the difference is that you’re paying your gardener, cleaner whoever a sensible market rate and can shop around. If you’re paying to go into care you’re at the mercy of a market that has been ravaged by private equity to squeeze as much money out as possible. Even a small family owned home is often used as a cash cow, leveraged to pay for the owners home and lifestyle, so they push up prices and reduce costs wherever possible. And in some cases sell unscrupulous probate/PoA legal agents access to residents.

I don't mind people having to pay for their care.
But they should just be paying for their care and not making huge profits for care home owners.

Those who plan to spend all their money so they get free care are taking a risk as their care needs might be minor and having the money might be what keeps them in their own home longer.

It's an almighty mess for sure, and one that no government will tackle so only going to get worse.