to think it’s time to ban dogs from shops and cafes?

[timetoban]

I’ve just read a BBC article about the increase in dog attacks in the UK.

Dogs seem to be everywhere now. Cafes, shops, even places where food is being served. I’m not anti-dog at all, but I don’t really want to be eating or shopping surrounded by them.

It’s not just about preference either. Some people are allergic, some are genuinely scared, and others just don’t want to deal with barking, smells or dogs getting under their feet. The BBC piece even mentioned people feeling like they have to avoid going out because dogs are everywhere now.

I also don’t really get how it’s hygienic in places serving food. I know people say “well-behaved dogs are fine” but not all dogs are well-behaved, and staff aren’t exactly going to challenge every owner.

Before anyone says it, yes obviously assistance dogs are different and should be allowed. That’s not what I mean.

I just feel like we’ve swung too far the other way where dog owners expect to take them absolutely everywhere, and everyone else just has to put up with it.

Surely it’s not unreasonable to have more dog-free indoor spaces again?

The vast majority of places you can’t take dogs to. That’s still the case. So Yabu imo.

I don’t mind, phobias don’t get better for annoyance. Dogs make most people happy.

Is it partly because people don’t want to leave dogs tied up outside anymore? Fear of dognapping?

Also, capitalism.

if it made more money to exclude them permanently from everywhere it would already have happened.

There are dog free spaces.
Generally dog attacks don’t occur in the spaces you mention.
YABU.

Christ, the daily "dogs in cafes" post. 🙄

There are plenty of cafes that dont accept dogs.
There are also plenty of cafes that do.

I swerve cafe's and restaurants that are crammed with kids. I have no wish to ban them though.

Its how choosing which establishments you want to frequent works.

banning dogs because of one breed is a bit of an overreaction

I agree. I dislike having dogs around, having them in shops and cafes is a huge problem for me. Unfortunately people with my views are a minority. I just avoid shops as much as possible, and virtually never go to cafes or pubs, even on holiday. On the plus side it saves us an absolute fortune.

My dog is a gorgeous clever boy but he is also a total dick at times. So I only take him in pubs with no food service or once food service ends. I'd never take him in a shop because he would probably try and steal food or anything fluffy in display. He doesn't shed so very low allergy risk (which is why I have this breed). I know not everyone likes dogs but that's their issue not mine. I don't live in a town or city and I don't think he'd enjoy going but he does quite like a bus ride. If there's food around I muzzle him. Same around kids

However providing a dog isn't plating up food or working in the kitchen in a cafe I'm not sure how its mere presence would make the place hygienic.

Dog attacks that are fatal are the majority large and even banned breeds. Not the type of dog I've ever seen in a shop or cafe or pub. I do see a lot of badly trained reactive dogs, the type that can't walk down the street without barking at other dogs. They tend to be the smaller fluffier breeds. They are not the same type of dogs who are carrying out dog attacks

Tl:Dr business owners will do what they think will bring the most customers. If the balance tips to fewer customers if there are dogs on the premises then the owners will ban dogs

YABU - but dog ownership should be regulated and a minimum level of acceptable behaviour in public spaces should be part of that. e.g. dogs should not be permitted to jump up, should be trained to quietly sit under tables, and should have good manners with dogs and people so that they do not interfere with service animals or other people. A six month training "licence" can be applied for to enable dogs to be trained in these spaces. I do think cafes or restaurants of a certain size should have animal free areas for people that do not like being near them. However, culturally dogs are widely ingrained and a blanket ban would unfairly impact many businesses in many areas where people go with their dogs during or after walks, commonly, and tourist areas where owners have to keep their dogs with them because their accommodations do not allow them to be left alone in a lot of cases.

The choice should remain with the business as they are implementing policies to appeal to their customer base. If you don't want dog-friendly spaces then don't frequent them. If enough anti-dog people did this, and it impacted business revenue, then the businesses would change their policies.

In the same way CFBC aren't entitled to a child free world, Dog-FBC, aren't entitled to a dog-free world. However, both camps are entitled to be annoyed at poorly mannered individuals in either camp - child or dog.

Same species, daft comparison

I'm a dog owner and I don't entirely disagree with you.

However. I don't thing the dog attacks are happening in the cafes and gift shops.

All the dog attacks in the news have been very particular breeds and have generally happened in people's homes , often to their family members sadly.

We don't usually take our dog shopping with us but we did the other day as we were on holiday. He just sat quietly while we browsed the shop. We spent over £100 , which we spent in that shop rather than competitors because it allowed dogs. Equally I am sure the dog free shops benefit from feeling like safe havens for those who are nervous of dogs.

Species is irrelevant.
Now go choose to avoid a cafe with dogs in it should you wish to do so.

Our town has become very dog friendly, I don't like it and feel like most cafes here do accept dogs. The thing I hate the most though is having to dodge the endless puddles of wee on the pavement. It feels very unhygienic.

I don't agree that this is where dog attacks are happening though. Most of those seem to happen in people's homes. Not shops or cafes.

I love dogs and I dont mind them in some places. We had a local cafe that had an indoor play area. They also allowed dogs inside. I personally wouldn't take my child there and I know a few other parents had similar concerns. It recently closed. I have no idea if they received more custom from parents or dog owners. But I don't think you can be everything to everyone.

Completely agree and I have two dogs myself
I don't feel the need to take my dogs everywhere I go ,I quite like a break from their yapping ,so I definitely don't want to be surrounded by other people's dogs when I'm out ..
A side from that a close friend of mine was bitten on the hand by a dog as she was walking past it in a cafe ..it was sat on the owners lap and just lunged at my friend..quite a bit of blood ..the dog owners just left while she was trying to stop the blood
24 hours later the bite had swelled up with infection and my friend had to have an operation and have a general anaesthetic to clean the wound out ..
Not good ..
My own experience of dogs in cafes ,stopped after a dog shit all over the floor next to the cakes display..dog was ill with diarrhoea and it was a river of shit under chairs and utterly vile .
From that moment on ,I have never gone in any food establishment that lets dogs in ..I simply chose somewhere dog free
So if enough of us choose dog free for places ,they might get the message

I wish they would. I don't want dog hairs in my food.

Also - most dangerous dog attacks happen where the animal is territorial - in their own home. Whilst some breeds are more prone to temperamental issues, and have physical anatomy that makes their attacks more lethal - banned breeds including XL Bullies are not allowed in public spaces, many businesses expressly exclude them in their policies. There are also two factors to dog attacks - 1) the dog's behaviour and training resulting in a dog trained to be uncontrollably aggressive (should be pts and owners banned from keeping dogs) 2) human behaviour, especially those that are too ignorant to respect animals and their emotions (including being irresponsible and letting children near a dog that is giving signals it does not want to be near a dog), and children not taught boundaries and how to be around animals safely. The latter includes people who have dogs that have never been around children and are unproven. I was, and still am, incredibly careful with introductions of any children with my soppy, gentle Labradors because they encounter children once in a blue moon, and I never let children pet them/say hello out and about because I do not know a random child and how they've been taught to interact with dogs.

I'm that person who brings her dog everywhere. I see this sentiment a lot online but it never matches with my experience. I constantly have strangers coming up to us on the street, in cafes, pubs, trains, buses etc. asking to pet her. I've been stood outside of shops and had workers come out and tell me to bring her in so they can say hello, I've gone to my local and been asked where she is. I'm sure there are people who silently disapprove (if they even notice her in my lap), but everyone I encounter is always really keen to have her around. The area I live in is very dog friendly - you'd be hard pressed to find a business that doesn't allow dogs and she is impeccably behaved and very cute so that helps.

Bang on. My cousin allowed dogs into his (at the time) struggling restaurant and has been able to open 3 more since!

The sheer financial benefit and subsequent increase in money into the economy is the motivation to allow dogs.

Oh my god. This thread again.

Allowing dogs in cafes, pubs and shops is a BUSINESS DECISION!!

They have decided that dog owners business and associated revenues are good.

It is not for the government to ban dogs from PRIVATE BUSINESSES.

God forbid that private businesses be allowed to make decisions about what is in their own commercial interests.

As long as it's clear on the door that dogs are allowed it doesn't bother me - I'm happy to avoid places that allow dogs as long as I know their policy

yabu.