AIBU to wonder what work are expecting me to do?

[FriskyHeeler]

I've worked at my current employer for 3 years and recently had a change in circumstances (in February) which means I have no childcare for my 3 children after school for 1-2 days out of the week. They have been understanding and accomodated my needs so far but have asked me to look at what realistic options are available and have called a meeting for next week to discuss, as the situation is not sustainable long term. I'll outline the facts below, please read carefully because it's not as simple a solution as most people seem to think.

• I work 8.30 - 5pm Monday to Friday and it takes me 30 mins to get to and from work.
• My husband works 8 - 4.30 Monday to Friday, his office is an hour away and he works from home on Thursdays and Fridays. Soon to be 3 days a week. He used to work nights, so would drop off and pick up the kids each day, however the strain on family life, our relationship, his mental health was not sustainable and he had numerous breakdowns over a long period of time and he changed jobs. Not ideal but I won't make my husband do a job he hated when it made him want to kill himself every day. He can be quite volatile and in the past this has affected work when he last left for periods of time so I've been left to sort the kids 100% of the time, at times. Work know things are rocky and my line manager thinks I should leave him but this would only make the situation more difficult.
• Our kids are 3, 5 & 9. The 3 & 5 year olds attend the same school/nursery and the 9 year old attends a different school.
• 2 out of the 3 kids have special needs and are settled in their schools. They previously attended the same primary school but had serious issues so we had to move them.
• Both schools have breakfast club, 1 starts at 7.50 and the other at 8.10, this obviously means I am often 10 mins late to work on the days they are in club.
• Neither school has ANY after school provision.
• We unfortunately live in an area where wrap around care isn't in demand, so options are pretty non existent.
• There are no childminders in the area that currently or are willing to pick up from either/both of their schools.
• Their are a couple of local nurseries that do after school club and they collect the kids from school and walk back to their premises. 1 of my kids is a flight risk so I do not feel comfortable with this as an option. He has escaped and ran off from his old school twice before.
• We cannot afford a nanny, prices are between £15 - 20 and hour when I have enquired and tbh, given my kids additional needs, I don't think anyone would last a week with them, they are VERY full on.
• My dad can collect the kids 1 day a week at an absolute push but it's his only day off and if he has plans it's not a given he can do it, I don't expect him to plan his life around MY kids. My dad works the other 4 days a week and my mom doesn't work but has stopped driving for health reasons so cannot pick them up and she is not physically able to walk/get the bus etc and as previously stated, 1 of them is a flight risk and she wouldnt be able to run after him if needed. A taxi for her to pick them up and go back to hers would be far too expensive multiple times a week as she has done this once before in an emergency and it was £30 for one pick up, let alone 2.
• There are no other parents at either of their schools that we know well enough to ask. We have no other friends or family in the area at all, aside from my mom and dad.
• So far, on days where my husband is in the office, I finish work at 14:40, pick up the kids from school and then log on at home for the remainder of the day, sometimes beyond 5pm.
• I am a supervisor and our team is growing and I will be responsible for up to 12 people eventually so work are saying I cannot effectively supervise if I am not in the office. We also have a lot of new team members (one being another supervisor) who are not fully trained so things tend to fall to shit a lot of them time if I am not there.
• Not to toot my own horn but i am the glue that holds the entire team together, and effectively, if I were to leave because I need more long term flexibility, they would be absolutely fucked. My line manager and our department manager knows this all too well, but are still pressuring me to find some magical solution that doesn't exist so I can be there 8.30-5 every single day. They've not said they will get rid of me, and I don't think they would, but they're saying I need to work my hours I am employed to do. I agree with this and have no issues with that, I've often said I will taken leave, take the time unpaid etc and they have always said no.
• I could put in a flexible working request to reduce my hours 1-2 days a week, but it would actually be a waste of time, as they can and would refuse it for a legitimate business reason.

I don't know what to do or what I'm supposed to say during this meeting. If you've thought of something I haven't explored above then please please let me know. I'm obviously going to explain all of the above in detail about what I've looked into and why it's not a viable option and see what they say. I'm also considering telling them I'm looking else where for something more flexible in the hope that they back down, but I don't actually want to leave, I really do enjoy working there and don't want to jump ship and end up being somewhere I don't like, or having to take a pay cut that I can't really afford.

Exactly. It's. It effective for anyone.
I have staff who work flexibly for me (as do I) and absolutely nobody can have the kids at home and work... we offer flexible.woeking for school drop offs etc.

If the OPs husband already has mental health problems, he may crack in this situation. I know I couldn't look after 3 kids and work.

I feel like you’re doing a lot to keep the place going, extras that you are doing unseen eg working through lunch, smoothing things over with staff, doing things so difficulties don’t arise with difficult characters, answering queries on your day off etc. Is it possible that they don’t realise how much you’re doing behind the scenes?

If you stopped doing these extras, and only did what you’re supposed to do, then watched things fail, would they realise what they would lose if you left ie not the 9-5 but the extras? Would that give you more bargaining room?

If you quit your job what would happen? Would you be entitled to benefits? If so, how much? Then minus childcare that wouldn’t be needed throughout the year, have you looked into that?

OP, hope you can find a solution and just ignore the blunt pointless replies on here. Can you get some professional advice - maybe ACAS as a first port of call? They helped me to find out my rights and how to navigate a situation, and you can reach out to them in confidence.

I think you've given it lots of thought and you're trying your best to figure it out. Fingers crossed for you

I bet a lot of the commenters here sticking their heads in the sand rather than looking for constructive solutions, also moan on other threads about mums on benefits...well if employers don't help parents then ppl have to give up jobs (mostly women) and the cycle of women struggling to find a child friendly job continues.
Shame on you lot with your computer says no attitude - you're the reasons there's so many shit managers who are just like "not my problem" rather than trying to retain good staff

Apologies if its already been said. There are keeping people in employment schemes flying around at the minute...I think some are trail blazers in W Yorkshire for example an employee in danger of leaving for health issues etc..can be granted £5000 for support with issues they are facing to be spent in any way. Have you costed the Nanny / specialist transport option and asked work for help? (Having won a giant contract) There are grant making trusts for specific industries and others for the needs of SEN children who would likely be tuning into this current government priority of keeping people in work for relatively little compared to possible welfare bill?

The reality is this @FriskyHeeler - your work are expecting to do your job as per your contract.

if you can’t, the onus is on you to suggest feasible ways around it. Not them.

Is OP not his line manager? If so, I think the fact he is insubordinate is very much her problem to address!

His normal hours are 8 - 4.30. He works 8.15 - 3pm has an hour's lunch where he collects the kids, that only leaves 45 mins of working time. He more than makes up for that working when they have gone to bed. Not that they are monitoring his hours when at home.

Ultimately OP I think you need to accept that you've had a really good run at not paying for childcare while trying to both work full-time with three children, but that this isn't actually possible unless you have family willing to do huge amounts of care for free. You need to pay either for childcare or in reduced salary. Both your husband's former struggles and your current ones show why this is - if it were so easy to just not pay for childcare why would anyone be paying for it?

My advice would be to try the afterschool club rather than just assuming that they won't be able to stop your child running off. He won't be their first flight risk, it is a foreseeable scenario for an afterschool club that walks the children from school and so they will have a plan in place to stop him or any other child from running off.

Well that’s the answer. You need work to pay for the nanny’s. Find a nanny and price it up. Take that to the meeting.

Why can’t your husband do pick up and drop off on his WFH days? And arrange his WFH days to be on the days you don’t have childcare?

Have you read any of the thread? He does pick up the kids on his WFH days. We have childcare on a Monday when me dad has the day off....that's it?

@FriskyHeeler The starting point is what do they do when you take your annual leave or when you are sick?

The 10 minutes in a morning due to childcare timings shouldn’t be a big issue, even for a supervisor. The solution for the business is they agree your start time is 8:45 by either reducing your hours and pay or allowing you to take a shorter lunch break (provided it’s at least 20 mins ideally 30 mins.)

What you need to agree is that each night you will set out the team’s work for the next day so they all have allocated work. There are two key factors a) the business employed adults if they cannot start work on time and work without direct supervision for 15 minutes it’s a performance issue and b) you have a deputy (capability is a separate issue) and it is a development opportunity for them to supervise for 15 minutes each morning. If they can’t do that then how to they manage when you are on leave?

The two afternoons you need to leave at 14:40. The two main options are either you reduce your hours (and pay) on those two days or you continue to WFH to complete your hours. Again they are employing adults and there is a deputy so this is not unachievable. Also think about what happens if you take leave/sick who supervises then?

What you need to think about from a business perspective is that other employees may see you arriving late, WFH, having flexibility etc. The right to request flexible working applies to all employees irrespective of their level. What happens if other employees ask for similar flexibility?

The barriers are what are the true job requirements e.g. a surgeon can’t operate from home. You need to take a step back and document the factual business requirements for your role, the deputy role, team members roles and the wider organisation. If for example you are open to customers 08:30 to 17:00 then you need resource in place between 08:25 to 17:05. However, you may not need 100% resource between e,g. 08:25 and 09:00 so what level of resource do you need taking into account leave and sick. Could a rota work?

Using this bullet point the flexibility the business can sustain at all levels/roles, not just yours. Note: It may vary depending on the requirements of a role.

Essentially you want a business case that meets business needs whilst setting a flexible working framework that allows all requests for flexible working to be considered equitably. Employers who are open to flexible working that meets business needs are attractive to current (anmended) and potential employees. It is part of the total reward package which should be designed to attract, retain and motivate employees.

I know this is you providing a solution but when it comes to flexible working in my experience there is a lack of creativity and thinking outside the box. Thinking about it from both a business perspective and an employee perspective is the best way to achieve a win win solution.

OP, 14 pages of advice and you seem to have nit picked with every single one.
Do you actually want to find a childcare solution, or are you just looking for justification to carry on as you are, getting paid full time, yet finishing hours early a couple of days a week and arriving a few minutes late on a regular basis, because of a lack of childcare.
Your employer(s) seem to have been remarkably tolerant for a while now, but the onus is on you to come up with a childcare solution, and not on your employer to continue making allowances.
As previous posters have pointed out, you have had a good run of free childcare, but now...like the majority of working parents...you are going to have to start paying for childcare, cut your hours or find another job with reduced hours.
But you don't seem to want to do this?

None of which are hard to justify.

Mum of 3 additional needs kids - its not an overly positive story. I ended up on school time hours and had to take term time as well. No wrap around could cope with them, same with holiday club.

Oh good, more ChatGPT.

Re flexible working requests.

Here's what I observed where I worked. Multiple teams delivering projects for clients. Each team had it's own area of expertise - no duplication. Each project required a unique mix of the expertise vested in our teams. Project teams varied in size.

Manager A allowed several team members to work flexibly - commonly compressed hours, or non-standard start and end times for example.

Manager S refused all requests, for one or more of the allowable business reasons. I couldn't see any intrinsic difference between how the teams operated, but HR and senior management let it go because managers were allowed discretion. Needless to say, staff morale on Team S was much lower than on Team A.
It seemed very unfair to me, as an observer.

I don't think I've nit picked? Some people spout advice as if it's the simplest solution, not taking into account any of the extenuating factors. People are still suggesting a nanny /childminder, which doesn't exist in my area or is not financially viable which I stated in my OP. I'm not going to take advice I've already thought of and discounted. I've looked. No one has come up with an option I've not thought about in terms of childcare. I'm not going to send my kids somewhere that is not going to be safe for them. Walking from school to the nursery is not going to be safe. Im not going to just "try it" to please my employer. They won't be the ones dealing with a dead child if he runs off and gets hit my a car. Which has almost happened before. Twice.

I've not "had a good run" really, as up until October our youngest went to a childminder full time, and before that, my middle went to the same childminder full time before he started school. I had 2 kids in full time paid childcare for 2 years and at one point when I first started this job, we were paying £1500 a month when I only earnt £1800 a month after tax at that time.

Which is why I asked what the drama is?

Its ONE day to cover and a nanny/ nursery worker etc could easily cover this
Surely its easier to pay for an hour or twos CC than risk losing your job?
I just dont get it

To answer the question, work expects you to fulfil your contract

Being there for the times that you signed for

So your life has changed, not their problem, they want you there for contracted hours.

So you are now being called into a meeting to discuss this, I can tell you now , its the first step to dismissal

If none of what available to you will work for you getting and finishing on time, suggest flexi or Zero hours for a fixed period of time to get sorted

Ive always negotiated a zero hour contract as I was my mums carer , plus my own problems. Im a good worker, I get what needs to be done in my time, Im reliable , Ive had two short notice absences from work in the past five year - one meaning I left 30 mins earlier and once when I really couldn't make it is after sitting in A&E for 14 hrs

Your boss wants to know what you have in place so hes not paying you to not be there , and wants to know how long this "blip" is going to last

As a parent of a child with additional needs we had to accept a drop in hours for me when he was pre school aged and early primary. My youngest is more adaptable and eldest now 8 so things are improving.

2 points

1. You may just have to accept the financial hot of job change or dropped hours, you've prioritised your husband's mh. It may mean a bigger income drop than you expected but that may just be your reality. Are you entitled to any DLA for your children? As that would pay for a nanny or similar so if not yet applied, apply. If you do receive it this is the sort of thing it's for, you may need to re prioritise those funds.

1. Long term it improves I've found so hopefully it'll be the same for you.

Op would it be possible to ask for a job share if they don't want you to reduce hours completely? Then find another job that fits within the kids school hours on those 2 days?

It's not that simple. I cannot afford to pay a nanny £500 a month for 2 days a week. Besides, the websites I've looked at, there are 3 people that come up even remotely close to where I live. Which are either not available on the days I'd potentially need or they want full time nannying jobs. Not 1-2 days a week looking after 3 children, 2 of which have special needs. Not all nursery workers want to look after other people's kids outside of their normal working hours.

This is what I mean when I say, no one has thought of a childcare solution that i haven't already looked into. I'm not nitpicking, they're just not realistic solutions for my kids needs or theyre not available in my area as there is no demand.

Have you applied for DLA?

Yes we get it for my eldest and I've applied for the middle. But that money gets used up on breakfast clubs and holiday time childcare.